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Author Topic:   Hitch is dead
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 136 of 190 (644883)
12-21-2011 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by jar
12-21-2011 11:35 AM


Hitch was a professional jerk.

Well, they can be funny... as long as they're not too serious. He seemed pretty serious tho, in the militant fasion (which I have little respect for).

Interestingly, his off stage persona seems quite different.

Got any links?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 12-21-2011 11:35 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Rahvin, posted 12-21-2011 11:57 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded
 Message 138 by jar, posted 12-21-2011 12:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1113 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 137 of 190 (644887)
12-21-2011 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2011 11:44 AM


Well, they can be funny... as long as they're not too serious. He seemed pretty serious tho, in the militant fasion (which I have little respect for).

I found some of his arguments to be persuasive, and his internal immunity to the concept of "taboo" allowed him to criticize things that had not even occurred to me to examine, like Mother Theresa. In her case I just heard all the good press, and never bothered to examine further, which led to a rather biased perspective on my part. I appreciate the ability of people like Hitchens and others like him to draw my attention to subjects I haven;t really thought to examine thoroughly, where I've made an opinion based on incomplete information. It's the subjects that we recoil at even the mention of criticizing that usually need critical examination the most.

But he certainly wasn't a saint. I'll miss some of his writing, and I don't wish cancer or death on just about anybody, but he did wish death on a large group of people solely for their religious convictions. Just because a subset of that group are nigh-genocidal doesn't justify a similar position in reverse. His positions on Islam and Iraq/Afghanistan make him much worse than a jerk, honestly.


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.”
- Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2011 11:44 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 138 of 190 (644888)
12-21-2011 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2011 11:44 AM


Sure, look at some of the material available from Larry Taunton.

Larry Taunton remembers his friend


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2011 11:44 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 12-22-2011 3:29 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
AdminModulous
Administrator (Idle past 30 days)
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 139 of 190 (644889)
12-21-2011 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Artemis Entreri
12-21-2011 10:55 AM


the correct response
The correct response to being insulted or disrespected by another member is to alert the moderators. The incorrect response is to disrespect or insult back.

As a result, and as I previously promised in Message 164 you can take 96 hours off. Again, if you persist in insulting other members upon your return you can subsequently take a week off.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-21-2011 10:55 AM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

    
AdminModulous
Administrator (Idle past 30 days)
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 140 of 190 (644891)
12-21-2011 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by subbie
12-16-2011 6:18 PM


Artemis at least achieved notifying the Admins to this comment. I don't think calling someone puerile is a problem, but 'puerile dickhead' is not the tone we are aiming for at this forum.

So take a 24 hour break.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by subbie, posted 12-16-2011 6:18 PM subbie has acknowledged this reply

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4504
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 141 of 190 (644960)
12-21-2011 9:29 PM


A moving testimony by his brother.

Pater Hitchens


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 11328
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 142 of 190 (644979)
12-22-2011 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by jar
12-21-2011 12:08 PM


An amazing side of Hitch
I read Larry Tauntons account of his friendship with Christopher Hitchens and am amazed at the recollections. Maybe you are right, jar. They may well have even better than Johnny Walker Black Label up there for him! Imagine..one of his best friends a Christian!!

Christopher Hitchens and Larry Taunton

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : added video link


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 12-21-2011 12:08 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 143 of 190 (645046)
12-22-2011 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Artemis Entreri
12-21-2011 10:55 AM


Re: non-issue
I must say, you did an admirable job of proving you're not puerile.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-21-2011 10:55 AM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 2348 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


(1)
Message 144 of 190 (645084)
12-23-2011 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Chuck77
12-20-2011 8:09 PM


Hey Chuck,

Can you provide any messages that show athiests making direct derogatory statements about Jesus?

Most of us do not have any reason to believe that the man actually existed so it would be a waste of our time to call him names.

You suggest that we mock Jesus all day long so it should not be hard to come up with statements that equal these -

He was a filthy piece of garbage and a piece of dung.

Dawn Bertot in Message 38

speaking of puerile dickheads, did you hear that Hitch died?

Artemis Entreri in Message 103

the guy was a troll. I am glad he is dead, fuck him.

Artemis Entreri in Message 113

Also, keep three things in mind with regards to any statements that you do find where athiests directly abuse towards Jesus or God.

1. Jesus is likley a mythical figure who died over 2000 years ago. I would have thought that a 2000 year mourning period would be enough.

2. Jesus was only dead for 72 hours so we are not mocking a dead man. We would be mocking a man who has sat in paridise for 2000 years and can expect to remain there for all eternity. I would think that a few course statements would not trouble him.

3. God is a god. Do you not think that God would be thick skinned enough to take it? Or is your god so fucking weak that he needs you, and the other mere mortals to stand up for him?

I really dont have a problem with anyone saying negative things about Hitch. I have no doubt that he would not have a problem with it with it either.

What I do have issue with is people leaving derogatory posts about a man for the simple fact that he said bad things about their religion. You, AE, DB etc so far have not posted anything of substance as yet. You dont have any response to anything he actually said, you just dont like him because he said nything at all.

I believe that your position is weak and deserves to be questioned.

All of the posts have been argumentum ad hominem.

Do any of you have something to say about his arguements or can you just attack the man?


I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong

Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot

"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson

2011 leading candidate for the EvC Forum Don Quixote award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Chuck77, posted 12-20-2011 8:09 PM Chuck77 has not yet responded

    
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 2348 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


Message 145 of 190 (645086)
12-23-2011 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dawn Bertot
12-19-2011 11:43 PM


Re: Afterlife Surprises
DB,

His arguments were 101 stuff. They put me to sleep

I have posted several of his videos here.

Care to respond?


I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong

Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot

"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson

2011 leading candidate for the EvC Forum Don Quixote award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-19-2011 11:43 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-24-2011 2:41 PM Butterflytyrant has responded

    
Itinerant Lurker
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 12-12-2008


Message 146 of 190 (645152)
12-23-2011 8:39 PM


Personal Favorite
\

Lurker


    
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 147 of 190 (645230)
12-24-2011 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Butterflytyrant
12-23-2011 2:33 AM


Re: Afterlife Surprises
I have posted several of his videos here.

Care to respond?

Could you just give the readers digest version in argument form, I presently dont have speaker for computer


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Butterflytyrant, posted 12-23-2011 2:33 AM Butterflytyrant has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Butterflytyrant, posted 12-24-2011 9:36 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

    
Butterflytyrant
Member (Idle past 2348 days)
Posts: 415
From: Australia
Joined: 06-28-2011


(1)
Message 148 of 190 (645276)
12-24-2011 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Dawn Bertot
12-24-2011 2:41 PM


Re: Afterlife Surprises
Hello Dawn Bertot,

it is a bit difficult to give a readers digest version of his debates. Some transscripts run into tens of thousands of words.

But here are some short quotes, take your pick...

quote:
The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.

By trying to adjust to the findings that it once tried so viciously to ban and repress, religion has only succeeded in restating the same questions that undermined it in earlier epochs. What kind of designer or creator is so wasteful and capricious and approximate? What kind of designer or creator is so cruel and indifferent? And—most of all—what kind of designer or creator only chooses to “reveal” himself to semi-stupefied peasants in desert regions?

The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.

Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody—not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms—had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge (as well as for comfort, reassurance, and other infantile needs). Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion.

Is it too modern to notice that there is nothing [in the ten commandments] about the protection of children from cruelty, nothing about rape, nothing about slavery, and nothing about genocide? Or is it too exactingly “in context” to notice that some of these very offenses are about to be positively recommended?

Religion has run out of justifications. Thanks to the telescope and the microscope, it no longer offers an explanation of anything important. Where once it used to be able, by its total command of a worldview, to prevent the emergence of rivals, it can now only impede and retard—or try to turn back—the measurable advances that we have made.

Sometimes, true, it will artfully concede them. But this is to offer itself the choice between irrelevance and obstruction, impotence or outright reaction, and, given this choice, it is programmed to select the worse of the two.

Meanwhile, confronted with undreamed-of vistas inside our own evolving cortex, in the farthest reaches of the known universe, and in proteins and acids which constitute our nature, religion offers either annihilation in the name of god, or else the false promise that if we take a knife to our foreskins, or pray in the right direction, or ingest pieces of wafer, we shall be “saved.”

Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or redeemers or gurus actually said or did.

My own view is that this planet is used as a penal colony, lunatic asylum and dumping ground by a superior civilisation, to get rid of the undesirable and unfit. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either.

Name one moral statement made or moral action performed by a believer that could nopt be performed by an unbeliever, and name one immoral statement made or immoral action performed that could only be performed by a believer.



I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong

Butterfly, AKA, mallethead - Dawn Bertot

"Superstitions and nonsense from the past should not prevent us from making progress. If we hold ourselves back, we admit that our fears are more powerful than our abilities." Hunters of Dune Herbert & Anderson

2011 leading candidate for the EvC Forum Don Quixote award


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-24-2011 2:41 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-27-2011 1:07 AM Butterflytyrant has not yet responded

    
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 199 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 149 of 190 (645449)
12-27-2011 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Butterflytyrant
12-24-2011 9:36 PM


Re: Afterlife Surprises
Butterfly writes
Hello Dawn Bertot,
it is a bit difficult to give a readers digest version of his debates. Some transscripts run into tens of thousands of words.

But here are some short quotes, take your pick...

Ok

Butterfly quotes Christopher Hitchens

Name one moral statement made or moral action performed by a believer that could nopt be performed by an unbeliever, and name one immoral statement made or immoral action performed that could only be performed by a believer.

Well thats easy. Since the unbeliever has no absolute standard of what moral is or is not and involves himself in a logical contradiction by claiming anything as immoral, as he follows a survival of the fittest standard, the believer can perform not only one thing the unbeliver cannot, but the only thing that matters, objectivity in a moral standard without fear of blatant contradiction

Is this the best the Journalist had?

Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Butterflytyrant, posted 12-24-2011 9:36 PM Butterflytyrant has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-27-2011 1:34 AM Dawn Bertot has responded
 Message 154 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2011 4:10 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded
 Message 155 by Theodoric, posted 12-27-2011 10:03 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded
 Message 157 by Modulous, posted 12-27-2011 12:30 PM Dawn Bertot has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16042
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(4)
Message 150 of 190 (645452)
12-27-2011 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Dawn Bertot
12-27-2011 1:07 AM


Re: Afterlife Surprises
Well thats easy. Since the unbeliever has no absolute standard of what moral is or is not and involves himself in a logical contradiction by claiming anything as immoral, as he follows a survival of the fittest standard, the believer can perform not only one thing the unbeliver cannot, but the only thing that matters, objectivity in a moral standard without fear of blatant contradiction

This is, of course, nonsense --- in the most literal sense, i.e. it consists of words combined in such a way that the resulting phrases have no meaning.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-27-2011 1:07 AM Dawn Bertot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-27-2011 1:52 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 152 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-27-2011 2:02 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
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