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Author Topic:   What Happened to Politicus Maximus?
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1 of 20 (644339)
12-17-2011 8:36 AM


This thread could also be titled, "Why Politicus Maximus was not revived after the hacker break-in."

The hackers were able to break in because dBoard software had no security features whatsoever. Making the software secure was on my list of things to do before taking the software commercial, but I hadn't gotten to it yet.

So the hackers broke in and gave me a crash course on site security. Thanks to the hackers (and I mean that sincerely - they found security holes I never would have thought to plug), this site's software is now very secure, but unfortunately Politicus Maximus was a casualty. The site still exists, but I disabled it because it has the same insecure version of the software that caused so many security problems here at EvC Forum.

One could reasonably argue that the odds that hackers are going to take any interest in Politicus Maximus is miniscule, but the same was true of EvC Forum. The only reason they came here was because Crashfrog had pissed them off debating abortion at some other site, and so they poked around the web for other websites Crash was using, found this one, broke in, stole his password, discovered he was using a different password at the other site, and so they decided to have some fun here.

The reason I can't reactivate Politicus Maximus in its current state is because it wouldn't be just Politicus Maximus at risk but the entire server. The security holes are big enough to allow hackers to take over the entire server. I can't take that risk.

Politicus Maximus could be reactivated, but there are a couple things I should explain. First, and I hope this isn't terrible news to anyone, all the old discussions and member registrations are gone. I'm sorry, but I wasn't performing backups on Politicus Maximus. All the images live on, though, since images are not kept in the database.

And second, Politicus Maximus can only be revived with a new version of the software. The old version is too risky.

There are a few ways to go with updating the Politicus Maximus dBoard software:

  • Update to the current version.

  • Wait and update to the new templated version. The templated version will be highly configurable. For example, if you wanted to move some of the information from the status box at the top to the bottom, you could do that. I'm not sure when the templated version will be available, but I am working on it right now and making excellent progress. The only problem is that there's a lot to do.

  • Update to the current version now, then update to the templated version when it is available.

Edited by Admin, : Remove redundant signature.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 12-17-2011 9:01 AM Admin has responded
 Message 4 by nwr, posted 12-17-2011 10:15 AM Admin has responded
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 11-21-2017 8:59 PM Admin has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 2 of 20 (644349)
12-17-2011 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
12-17-2011 8:36 AM


Templated Version
Admin writes:

The templated version will be highly configurable.

Will EvC Forum also have a templated version?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Admin, posted 12-17-2011 8:36 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 12-17-2011 9:30 AM Phat has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 3 of 20 (644358)
12-17-2011 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
12-17-2011 9:01 AM


Re: Templated Version
Phat writes:

Will EvC Forum also have a templated version?

Yes, of course. Once I have it working and debugged then I'll be upgrading EvC Forum to the templated version, which will be dBoard 5.0. Members will be able to select from among multiple styles, although the ones initially available will only change the color theme and not the layout.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5544
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 4 of 20 (644374)
12-17-2011 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
12-17-2011 8:36 AM


First, and I hope this isn't terrible news to anyone, all the old discussions and member registrations are gone.

I suspected that. In my opinion, there wasn't much there (in the way of discussions) anyway.

And second, Politicus Maximus can only be revived with a new version of the software.

I take that as a given.

The significant question, I think, is whether it should be revived. I'll start a new post (but still in this thread) for that.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Admin, posted 12-17-2011 8:36 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 12-17-2011 10:34 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 5 of 20 (644377)
12-17-2011 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by nwr
12-17-2011 10:15 AM


Hi Nwr,

I should have referenced this Message from Perdition:

Perdition writes:

Speaking of Politicus Maximus...I'd be willing to work on it some more if Percy wants to contact me to get it restarted...and if there is any interest among the posters here to have it restarted.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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 Message 4 by nwr, posted 12-17-2011 10:15 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5544
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(4)
Message 6 of 20 (644378)
12-17-2011 10:36 AM


Should Politicus Maximus be given a fresh start?
This is, of course, opinion. It is based on my previous participation in PM prior to its problems.

The original incarnation of PM was, in my opinion, a failure. Unless a new version can do better, then it is probably not worth the effort.

It was a failure, in the sense that participants never reached a critical mass and discussion rarely got as hot as political discussions can do. It was a failure because there was more political discussion in the Coffee Room at evc than in PM.

I'm inclined to think that EvC members are mostly there for the science discussion, or in some cases for the theology discussions. They see the political discussions in the Coffee Room as a kind of relaxation break from their main interest. If PM is to be successful independent of EvC, then it needs an independent membership. Perhaps the 2012 campaign season is the time to try it, if that is the aim.

If the main goal of PM is to keep the politics out of EvC, then I think you would need to force that. You would need to automatically add active EvC members to PM membership, and have EvC moderators reject political threads or move them to PM (if that could be made possible).

My own opinion - PM was an interesting experiment, but it is probably not worth reviving.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by hooah212002, posted 12-17-2011 11:10 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 516 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 7 of 20 (644384)
12-17-2011 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by nwr
12-17-2011 10:36 AM


Re: Should Politicus Maximus be given a fresh start?
To add to what nwr says, I would suggest (provided PM is your brainchild, Percy) making PM a direct corollary to EvC. Basically, make it a seamless transition from one site to the other for political discussion. I, for one, post in political topics here and not elsewhere because of the level of expected discourse given the nature of EvC. I see this site as somewhere where "adult" conversation is, for the most part, expected. Yes, I am a very bad example of this with my propensity for profane language and the fact that I am nowhere near as edumacated as most of you, but it is a level I strive for. Conversely, the few times I visited PM, it felt disjointed. It didn't feel as though there would be any semblance of valid discourse.

That's just my 2 pesos, take it with a grain of salt.


Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15984
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 8 of 20 (644475)
12-18-2011 9:10 AM


Out of interest ... how did EvC get started? How, indeed, does any forum get started? Why would anyone want to join a forum that doesn't have any members?
Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 12-18-2011 9:42 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16298
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 9 of 20 (644480)
12-18-2011 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Adequate
12-18-2011 9:10 AM


See http://www.evcforum.net/WebPages/AboutThisSite.html.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-18-2011 9:10 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-18-2011 10:48 AM Percy has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15984
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 10 of 20 (644488)
12-18-2011 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Percy
12-18-2011 9:42 AM


Thanks. By the way, the pages:

Reference Library
Religion in the News
Science in the News
Creation/Evolution Glossary
Geology Glossary
Discussion Boards
About This Site
Site Map

... don't have the logo ...

... and also the little yellow and black EvC thing on the browser bar isn't there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 12-18-2011 9:42 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Percy, posted 12-18-2011 11:30 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16298
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 11 of 20 (644496)
12-18-2011 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dr Adequate
12-18-2011 10:48 AM


Yeah, I know. And you're volunteering to fix this?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-18-2011 10:48 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Perdition
Member (Idle past 850 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 12 of 20 (644791)
12-20-2011 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by hooah212002
12-17-2011 11:10 AM


Re: Should Politicus Maximus be given a fresh start?
Conversely, the few times I visited PM, it felt disjointed. It didn't feel as though there would be any semblance of valid discourse.

I agree with you. I viewed PM as a work in progress. My initial goal was to set up some sort of structure that made sense to me. Once we got some people posting there regularly, and maybe even drawing some new blood instead of purely old EvCers, I'd start modifying as needed: adding moderators, articulating necessary rules, adding or deleting fora.

Unfortunately, as has been said, we didn't get a huge population of posters. I partially attribute that to PM's quick demise at the hand of the hackers, and partially to the overwhelming success of this site. Whenever I visit other fora, I subconsciously compare them to EvC and find them lacking. Not only is the dBoard software great (and PM was able to use this) the regular contributors here are awesome, and it takes time to build a population like that. Strating from scratch is difficult at best.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15984
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 13 of 20 (644793)
12-20-2011 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Perdition
12-20-2011 5:20 PM


Re: Should Politicus Maximus be given a fresh start?
I think the problem is that you can't start with a forum that needs people, you have to start with people who need a forum.
This message is a reply to:
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 850 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 14 of 20 (644796)
12-20-2011 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Adequate
12-20-2011 5:32 PM


Re: Should Politicus Maximus be given a fresh start?
I think the problem is that you can't start with a forum that needs people, you have to start with people who need a forum.

I agree, which is why I said I'd be willing to work on a restarted PM if the posters here desired it. If they don't, then I don't see a reason to restart it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-20-2011 5:32 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

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 Message 15 by Percy, posted 12-20-2011 8:42 PM Perdition has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 16298
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 15 of 20 (644808)
12-20-2011 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Perdition
12-20-2011 5:59 PM


Re: Should Politicus Maximus be given a fresh start?
You might want to start with a more controversial site name - Democrats versus Republicans, for example, or Liberals versus Conservatives, or Political Revolution, or Revolutionary Politics, or Citizens in Revolt, or 99% versus 1%, etc.

EvC Forum was a dud for its first year and I used the time to build content, which I don't think I need now. Wikipedia, Firefox, Chrome, etc., didn't exist in 2001.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Perdition, posted 12-20-2011 5:59 PM Perdition has responded

Replies to this message:
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