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Author Topic:   Evolution is True Because Life Needs It
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 84 of 188 (653467)
02-21-2012 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by markl67
02-20-2012 9:37 PM


It cannot reasonably explain the origin of the "primordial ooze" from whence all life originated from.
Evolution is the study of life and how it has changed. How life got here is as relevant to that as how atoms and molecules first got here is to chemistry. You can certainly study what will happen if you mix chemicals together without knowing (or even believing) the Big Bang Theory.
Similarly, you can study how life has changed and is changing without reference to abiogenesis, or even Genesis. Trying to conflate the two is just an expression of ignorance, both about what the Theory of Evolution says, and how science works in general.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by markl67, posted 02-20-2012 9:37 PM markl67 has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(2)
Message 91 of 188 (653485)
02-21-2012 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by markl67
02-21-2012 5:05 PM


My contention is that the evolutionary hypothesis is bunk based on the fact that it doesn't address (because it can't) the issue of origin.
Because it is not supposed to. Chemistry does not address the origin of atoms. Theory of Gravity does not address the origin of the universe or of mass. Theoris are generally very focused things, they pick one aspect, in the ToE's case, it is addressing the fact that we see variation and adaptation, supported by fossils, DNA and morphology.
What I'm saying is submitting a model on creation is not taken seriously because if/when the term "creator" is used its directly tied to God and deemed religious. It's like inviting a basketball team to play in a hockey rink.
When speaking in a scientific sense, what gets thrown out are only those ideas that have no evidence to support them, or that are less supported by the evidence than a competing theory. A model that includes a creator would be embraced, assuming that model had evidence, made prediciotns that could be tested, and was better at (or at least as good at) explaining the current evidence as the currently accepted model (ToE). If that seems daunting, that's because it is, we have hundreds of years and literally trillions of bits of evidence that all appears to support the ToE. Most creationists have "What if" questions, old books, quote mines, and fallacies of incredulousness and authority.
Trust me, a scientist that could successfully overturn the ToE would be hailed as a genius by the scientific community, would win a Nobel Prize, and would probably become more famous than anyone else in the world. If you seriously think anyone would decide to just let that go in order to uphold a theory they now know to be wrong, you're deluded.
Your reality is skewed in my mind...how anyone can look at nature and the amazing human anatomy and arrive at anything other than ID is mind boggling to me.
Just as yours is skewed in ours. How anyone could look at nature and the world around them and not see the majestic struggle for life, the overcoming of enormous odds, and, yes, the poor design, and assume that it couldn't happen naturally, seems to be simply denying that which seems obvious to the rest of us.
Nature is amazing. I'm in awe of it constantly, especially when we discover some new species or find a new planet circling some distant star. To demean all of nature by saying someone must have made it so, that it couldn't have happened naturally is, to me, hubris at best and willful ignorance at worst.
My point is if atheists are right then who cares, but if wrong then you have a major problem don't you. I cant even imagine thinking this life is it...
I'm an athiest, and I care. If all that is holding you back from committing immoral acts is the fear of eternal punishment, then I sincerely hope you never lose your faith. For the rest of us, the fact that we live in a society, that we have empathy, and that we recognize that everyone's life is fleeting is more than enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by markl67, posted 02-21-2012 5:05 PM markl67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by markl67, posted 02-21-2012 7:31 PM Perdition has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 106 of 188 (653534)
02-22-2012 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by markl67
02-21-2012 7:31 PM


I know we're getting way off topic but this type statement saddens me..."If all that is holding you back from committing immoral acts is the fear of eternal punishment, then I sincerely hope you never lose your faith."... the perception that God is angry and/or unloving. I never fear eternal punishment no matter what I do because I believe someone took my place and paid the debt.
Ok, so then you're in the same boat as the rest of us; you don't commit immoral acts because you're not immoral.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by markl67, posted 02-21-2012 7:31 PM markl67 has not replied

  
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