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Author Topic:   Evolution is True Because Life Needs It
barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 151 of 188 (671000)
08-21-2012 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by New Cat's Eye
08-21-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Evolution problem,silly story
Question; would the lest aggressive fox survive in the dog eat dog world of natural selection? Tell me have these foxes given birth to, bobcats or more foxes? Wouldn’t these foxes be an example of adaption through man made manipulation? My apps that last sentance sliped through my proread.

Edited by barnes, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
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Posts: 6037
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 152 of 188 (671001)
08-21-2012 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by barnes
08-21-2012 1:50 PM


Silly creationist story
Tell me have these foxes given birth to, bobcats or more foxes?

Until you learn enough to get rid of this idea of one generation giving birth to an entirely different critter it really isn't worth trying to explain these things to you.

Edited by Coyote, : Missing word


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10126
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 153 of 188 (671004)
08-21-2012 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by barnes
08-21-2012 1:50 PM


Re: Evolution problem,silly story
Question; would the lest aggressive fox survive in the dog eat dog world of natural selection?

Who knows?

Tell me have these foxes given birth to, bobcats or more foxes? Wouldn’t this be an example of adaption through man made manipulation?

Foxes have of course given birth to foxes. The result is not an example of man made manipulation.

Foxes have never given birth to bobcats, and given that the event never happened, such an event is also not an example of man-made manipulation. Instead it is an example of your own over active imagination.

It is also the case that evolution has never been about one animal giving birth to an animal of a different species. I suppose it is possible that you actually believe you are putting forth winning arguments refuting evolution. But in actuality you are attacking some goofy propositions that are not part of the theory of evolution.

Before you can score any points, you have to get in the game.

By the way, car engines don't reproduce. Living creatures do that. You see when mommy really loves daddy....


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 154 of 188 (671005)
08-21-2012 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Coyote
08-21-2012 1:56 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
Again I apologize. I did not realize one could have minute changes in say the heart, lungs or liver without being detrimental. Wouldn’t those things be called defects, say mitral valve prolapse? That deformity is generally repaired not celebrated.
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 155 of 188 (671008)
08-21-2012 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by barnes
08-21-2012 2:40 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
Again I apologize. I did not realize one could have minute changes in say the heart, lungs or liver without being detrimental.

You didn't? How odd.

But if you have never taken the slightest interest in biology, why the heck are you participating on this forum talking about evolution?

Evolution explains biology, that's what it's there for. So if you know nothing about biology, why are you even interested in evolution?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 156 of 188 (671010)
08-21-2012 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by barnes
08-21-2012 2:40 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
How can breeding foxes i.e.; fox A, with fox B, to get fox C be remotely close to natural selection? I guess I don’t get it; wouldn’t that be more of a demonstration of how man got dogs from wolf? I.e. the dog exists because of man’s manipulation of the wolf, not by nature’s production of the dog.
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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 157 of 188 (671012)
08-21-2012 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Dr Adequate
08-21-2012 3:02 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
Isn’t the cell just a smaller demonstration of complexity with in the whole? I.e. one cannot pull the piston out of a running engine without failure of the whole?
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 158 of 188 (671013)
08-21-2012 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by barnes
08-21-2012 3:20 PM


Silly analogies abound
I.e. one cannot pull the piston out of a running engine without failure of the whole?

What does this have to do with evolution? In what scenario does evolution resemble this at all?

No really, I want you to answer these questions. They are not rhetorical. I linked to a definition in case your grasp of vocabulary is bad as your grasp of biology.

An engine could run with a failure in one piston. Happens all the time.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 159 of 188 (671014)
08-21-2012 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by barnes
08-21-2012 3:20 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
bi·ol·o·gy
   [bahy-ol-uh-jee] Show IPA

noun
1.
the science of life or living matter in all its forms and phenomena, especially with reference to origin, growth, reproduction, structure, and behavior.

2.
the living organisms of a region: the biology of Pennsylvania.

3.
the biological phenomena characteristic of an organism or a group of organisms: the biology of a worm

Call me crazy but I belive it says origin, growth, reproduction, structure, and behavior.


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rueh
Member (Idle past 1277 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 160 of 188 (671015)
08-21-2012 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by barnes
08-21-2012 3:12 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
Barnes writes:

How can breeding foxes i.e.; fox A, with fox B, to get fox C be remotely close to natural selection?

Because it is still selection. It is just artificial selection based on a predetermined trait that the scientists were looking for. This is an example of how selecting for one trait in the foxes phenotype, in this case behavior. Gives rise to additional changes in phenotype as expressed by morphology. If it were to occur naturally, it would be because the trait of being docile was being actively selected for in a breeding population. However whether through natural or artificial selection it is an example of how selection can lead to changes in the phenotype of a species.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 161 of 188 (671016)
08-21-2012 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by barnes
08-21-2012 3:27 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
I never have seen an engine run, with a failure in a piston, for any length of time before catastrophic failure. This does not demonstrate a good end result.
This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5299
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 162 of 188 (671017)
08-21-2012 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by barnes
08-21-2012 3:20 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
Isn’t the cell just a smaller demonstration of complexity with in the whole? I.e. one cannot pull the piston out of a running engine without failure of the whole?

Two words:

Oscar Pistorius.


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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 163 of 188 (671018)
08-21-2012 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by rueh
08-21-2012 3:28 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
Rueh: Good explanation. I am still at a loss, the word selection assumes thought. What dose nature ultimately select and why haven’t we seen any advancement in what we have. Has nature maid her Ultimate selection?
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barnes
Junior Member (Idle past 1848 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 08-20-2012


Message 164 of 188 (671020)
08-21-2012 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Coragyps
08-21-2012 3:47 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
I don't belive they fixed Oscar Pistorius while he was running.
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15987
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 165 of 188 (671024)
08-21-2012 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by barnes
08-21-2012 3:49 PM


Re: Silly creationist story
I am still at a loss, the word selection assumes thought.

No it doesn't.

For example, you will have noticed that scientists sometimes use the term "natural selection". But if you find out what they're talking about, they will explicitly say that this is an unintelligent process.


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