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Author Topic:   Detecting Intelligence - SETI and ID Compared
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 46 (644905)
12-21-2011 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
12-21-2011 1:05 PM


SETI seems to be looking for a Human or Human like technology. While it may wee also detect intelligence, it would likely only detect human like intelligence and even only a very small subset of human like intelligence.
It is not looking for "intelligence" in general but only the very narrowly defined intelligence of a human like technological system.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 46 (644939)
12-21-2011 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Rahvin
12-21-2011 3:26 PM


Can we even recognize intelligence that is quite different than our own?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 46 (644951)
12-21-2011 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
12-21-2011 4:51 PM


No, of course not.
"Intelligent Design" proponents are simply irrelevant and can be just dismissed as such.
SETI looks for a very specific signal, one that shows a technology level similar to our current technology level. My question is could it detect something as being intelligent if the other thing was totally alien to our current technology? Is SETI defining intelligence as "just like us"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-21-2011 4:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Rahvin, posted 12-21-2011 6:45 PM jar has replied
 Message 28 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2011 2:59 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 46 (644957)
12-21-2011 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Rahvin
12-21-2011 6:45 PM


a critter like us
We know that other species here on earth have developed other ways of communicating over extended distances, beyond up close and personal and even beyond line of sight. We know several species use ultra low sound waves for communication over long distances both under water and in species that live on land a system of low frequency transmission through the ground.
Now sound doesn't transmit well through a vacuum and so SETI can't hope to detect such signals so it is back to the EM spectrum.
The EM transmissions we made were of course not intended to leave earth so the broadcast EM material is primarily acceptable waste or unintentional.
We also know that at least two other species that use broadcast transmission for communication use methods and technology that would not be detectable across even interplanetary distances.
So again, SETI is not so much looking for "intelligence" as for "intelligence that is like us".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Rahvin, posted 12-21-2011 6:45 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 46 (644959)
12-21-2011 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
12-21-2011 8:07 PM


Re: a critter like us
It appears that whales communicate over pretty long distances.
Elephants communicate over really long distance.
We use EM.
They don't.
SETI is looking for critters that use EM, like us.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 22 by Taq, posted 12-22-2011 11:57 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 46 (645022)
12-22-2011 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taq
12-22-2011 11:57 AM


Re: a critter like us
How many species have used the EM spectrum that we know about?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 22 by Taq, posted 12-22-2011 11:57 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 12-22-2011 12:07 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 26 by Rahvin, posted 12-22-2011 2:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 46 (645033)
12-22-2011 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Rahvin
12-22-2011 2:46 PM


Re: a critter like us
Actually my definition of like us would include only those technologies that use non directional broadcasted EM, and if you actually look at what humans have done, they use wide area broadcast as little as possible even now.
That hardly seems broad.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Rahvin, posted 12-22-2011 2:46 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 46 (645036)
12-22-2011 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by New Cat's Eye
12-22-2011 2:59 PM


So it is not looking for "intelligence" but rather a "technology like what we use".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2011 2:59 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2011 3:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 46 (645038)
12-22-2011 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by New Cat's Eye
12-22-2011 3:07 PM


Which is what I have said all along. Sheesh.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 30 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-22-2011 3:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 46 (645067)
12-22-2011 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Straggler
12-22-2011 7:49 PM


Actually, even humans do not intentionally broadcast across space using the EM spectrum unless it is as narrow and directional as possible.
SETI is looking for EM transmissions that reach us.
There would be two possible sources for such signals, a civilization that is sending signals to some other civilization that is within the beam width when the signal gets to us (or was in the beam at some time between when the signal originated and it arrived at our location) OR ...
... like the signals radiating out from earth, waste artifacts of local communication.
Most of the EM transmissions originating on earth are that part of old radio and TV signals that did not get reflected off the ionosphere as intended and so escaped to propagate through space.
As soon as we were able we changed our transmission procedure to make EM transmissions as directional as possible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Straggler, posted 12-22-2011 7:49 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
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