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Author Topic:   Detecting Intelligence - SETI and ID Compared
Taq
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Posts: 9944
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Message 10 of 46 (644950)
12-21-2011 5:48 PM


This is what SETI is looking for:
This is a narrowband transmission (x-axis) that sticks out above background (y-axis) and changes with time (z-axis). That's it. They are looking for this type of electromagnetic emission because they believe that only human-like technology is capable of producing it. Natural sources of EM emission have very wideband patterns, even if some have oscillations in intensity (e.g. pulsars, LGM).
It think it is also interesting to note that many "hits" (all of them?) have turned out to be human satellites. None, to my knowledge, have turned out to have natural sources.

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 Message 21 by Straggler, posted 12-22-2011 6:29 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


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Message 22 of 46 (645020)
12-22-2011 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
12-21-2011 8:16 PM


Re: a critter like us
It appears that whales communicate over pretty long distances.
Elephants communicate over really long distance.
Do they communicate with sattelites orbitting distant planets?
SETI is looking for critters that use EM, like us.
I think Rahvin has done a very nice job of laying out why a curious, intelligent species that needs to communicate across interplanetary distances would use EM, at least at some point in their technological advancement. The "like us" part of the search is really about looking for species that need to communicate between each other over interplanetary and even intercontinental distances. EM offers a solution that solves this problem. Intelligent species would use it, at least at some point in their history. They may have a hive mind, morals and culture we can never understand, or even interpersonal routes of communication that are completely foreign to us. However, there is every reason to believe that they would use EM for communication at some point.
So what we are looking for is a known and very likely solution to a problem that every intelligent space faring species will have to overcome.

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 Message 17 by jar, posted 12-21-2011 8:16 PM jar has replied

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 Message 23 by jar, posted 12-22-2011 12:01 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 24 of 46 (645023)
12-22-2011 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Straggler
12-22-2011 6:29 AM


If (for example) we were to detect a repeated signal from a far off star expressing the value of Pi to 128 decimal places in binary emitted at the frequency of the Hydrogen line I would suggest that we could very reasonably consider this a sign of intelligent beings.
If SETI found such a signal I'm sure they would consider it as such.
OK. I get what you are saying about what SETI are actually doing. But it is possible to recognise non-human intelligent sourcing from the content and type of signal isn't it?
If (for example) we were to detect a repeated signal from a far off star expressing the value of Pi to 128 decimal places in binary emitted at the frequency of the Hydrogen line I would suggest that we could very reasonably consider this a sign of intelligent beings.
If SETI found such a signal I'm sure they would consider it as such.
Would we be able to decipher something akin to the signals we send to our satellites, like Voyager (or V-ger ? That, I don't know. I suspect that we could, or at least come very close. Humans are good at cracking codes, even those that are designed to hide their purpose and content. Then again, this is a case of humans breaking human code.
Are we sending out a signal like the one you describe, one that could be detected across large galactic distances? I don't think we are, are we? If a distant civilization picked up our signal they could at least determine that we are using a binary code of some sort, or at least using modulation within the signal to convey information. I think this would be enough to determine that there is an intelligence behind the signal.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 25 of 46 (645024)
12-22-2011 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
12-22-2011 12:01 PM


Re: a critter like us
How many species have used the EM spectrum that we know about?
100% of the intelligent, space faring species that use intercontinental communication. Of course that 100% is 1 of 1, but still . . .

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 Message 23 by jar, posted 12-22-2011 12:01 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 9944
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 42 of 46 (645134)
12-23-2011 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Just being real
12-23-2011 6:07 AM


why then when we very clearly have the presence of T, R, and O in the case of DNA code, is it not considered to be IP?
Because we see unintelligent organisms like bacteria producing DNA. Therefore, DNA is the product of unintelligent processes, and the change in DNA through time is also observed to be the result of naturally occuring mechanisms (i.e. evolution).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Just being real, posted 12-23-2011 6:07 AM Just being real has replied

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