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Author Topic:   New catholic scandal
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


(1)
Message 10 of 75 (647338)
01-09-2012 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by frako
01-09-2012 8:40 AM


Re: A Cure Worse than the Disease?
If i rally a mob in front of your house...
Then the crime would be the rallying not related to what you said in particular that enabled you to do the rallying.
The guy disrespects the human race by his existence but he is not a criminal for what he said.
Moreover, how is this any worse than saying that people who don't believe in a particular sky daddy deserve to be burned in a lake of fire for all eternity? That someone's sovereign thoughts should allow them to be punished worse than anything we mere mortals can conceive?
I understand that the danger is that some people might really act on what this guys says but we can't say that speech is free unless there exist people who actually listen to you when you say nasty things.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by frako, posted 01-09-2012 8:40 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by frako, posted 01-09-2012 10:44 AM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 12 of 75 (647354)
01-09-2012 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by frako
01-09-2012 10:44 AM


Re: A Cure Worse than the Disease?
So if someone acts on the priests ramblings and rapes a woman who aborted a child the guy who acted and the priest should be arrested, and punished. the guy who acted gets tried for rape, the priest gets tried on incitement of violence.
So if I say right now that I think certain Republican presidential candiates are economic terrorists and that I hope they drop dead and you go out and shoot one of them, I am responsible for inciting you to violence?

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by frako, posted 01-09-2012 10:44 AM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Panda, posted 01-09-2012 12:54 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 15 of 75 (647383)
01-09-2012 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Panda
01-09-2012 12:54 PM


Re: A Cure Worse than the Disease?
But the answer is: "Yes, you could be responsible."
The point of the comparision was to elicit a further justification that the speech should be illegal. Can you justify it?
But they still got 4 years in prison.
Well, there are definitly some different sensibilities between the US and the UK regarding free speech. To any extent that someone should be imprisoned for something like that should be because they were orchestrating the riots BY their speech, not the speech itself.
Someone saying, "I am outraged! We should riot!" should be protected speech.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Panda, posted 01-09-2012 12:54 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Panda, posted 01-09-2012 3:46 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 18 by Tangle, posted 01-09-2012 3:50 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 22 by frako, posted 01-09-2012 5:30 PM Jazzns has not replied
 Message 23 by Modulous, posted 01-09-2012 7:16 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 19 of 75 (647425)
01-09-2012 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Panda
01-09-2012 3:46 PM


Re: A Cure Worse than the Disease?
So if someone says, "I am outraged! We should riot!" and there is subsequently NO rioting, is that a crime? Should it be?

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Panda, posted 01-09-2012 3:46 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Tangle, posted 01-09-2012 4:46 PM Jazzns has not replied
 Message 24 by Panda, posted 01-10-2012 4:32 AM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 20 of 75 (647427)
01-09-2012 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Tangle
01-09-2012 3:50 PM


Re: A Cure Worse than the Disease?
I don't know enough about the particular case or how well it relates to the topic. I remember hearing that people were using social media to avoid police, etc. That is what I meant when I said there is a difference in using speech to orchestrate a riot.
I am sorry, again I think it is just the different sensibilities that shaped our cultures, I don't think it is worth the slight benefits to my physical safety to start throwing people into jail for thought crimes no matter how revolting what they think is.
I do think that there ARE many in the US that would gladly make that trade though.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Tangle, posted 01-09-2012 3:50 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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