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Author Topic:   Tentativity and The Bible
ringo
Member
Posts: 13631
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 32 of 48 (767441)
08-29-2015 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Straightshot
08-28-2015 3:05 PM


Straightshot writes:

The biblical account of creation is the only one to rely upon .... communicated by the Creator Himself


So, the OP says (and Paul says) that we should test all things. How do you test that the Bible was communicated by the Creator Himself? Remember that you can't use what you're testing as the standard for the test, so your test has to be outside the Bible.

How do you test whether there even IS a Creator?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Straightshot, posted 08-28-2015 3:05 PM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 12:58 PM ringo has responded

  
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 33 of 48 (767448)
08-29-2015 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
08-29-2015 12:21 PM


Try this Ringo

Study and learn the Lord's prophetic word and then test it against recorded history

You will find that the congruence is 100% accurate

All prophecy in the Bible is given in advance .... and then always comes to pass exactly as written

The prophets lived at different times and in different places, and yet they all see the very same things

There is no way that their projections could just be coincidental

So their inspirations must be coming from one source [2 Peter 1:16-21]

Give it a try

It worked for me .... and I am a big skeptic and a realist

It is essential for a skeptic to discover that the Bible is what it claims to be, the rest is a matter of seeking the balance

I have no affiliation with any organizational religion and never have .... so if I can do this .... you can

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 08-29-2015 12:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 08-29-2015 1:07 PM Straightshot has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13631
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 34 of 48 (767449)
08-29-2015 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Straightshot
08-29-2015 12:58 PM


Straightshot writes:

Study and learn the Lord's prophetic word and then test it against recorded history

You will find that the congruence 100% accurate


Actually, I won't. Ezekiel's prophecy against Tyre is an example that comes to mind:
quote:
Ezekiel 26:14 And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the Lord have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

It was rebuilt. Prophecy failed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 12:58 PM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 4:10 PM ringo has responded

  
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 35 of 48 (767479)
08-29-2015 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
08-29-2015 1:07 PM


ringo

I don't have to prove anything to you, but understand that the Lord knows the ending of the beginning of all things in advance

Both Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the great attacked Tyre [the original coastal island city] .... and it is this Tyre that is no more

http://www.padfield.com/1994/tyre.html

Also understand that when the Lord brings destruction to a city or nation, the destruction comes to the people of the day .... but this does not mean that future cities will not be built later on the same topography

The fact is that Tyre was destroyed just as Ezekiel projected

Cities have been built on the top of other previous cities in the Middle East for centuries .... the are called tels

Instead of reconstructing and repairing the original city, the same locations are then used to build another on the top of the tel .... but the original city is not reconstructed

So when the Lord brings destruction upon a people and their city He does it .... what is built again is another matter

Here is another example

The Lord brought the Assyrians against the ancient city of Damascus in Syria [Isaiah 17:1]

So for the people of the day their city was completely destroyed into a ruinous heap .... Damascus no longer existed

However, the city was later re-built

The point is that the Lord gives His prophets advanced warning that judgment is coming because the people of the city or a nation have brought it upon themselves by their behavior which is unacceptable to the Lord

So He sets out to destroy their cultural environment of the intransigent populations living there at the time

When a Bible prophet makes a dire prediction against a city or nation that refuses to repent and turn to God it will come to pass .... this is the way of the Lord, and He can and will make good on His intents

The early Island nation of Tyre was warned and when the Lord's warning by His prophet was ignored, the Lord brought the destruction as promised

Here is an example of a future and similar event that is coming [Revelation 8:6-12; 14:8; 17:16-18; 18]

Evidence bears truth .... the predictions of His prophets always come to pass .... and the same for future events will come to pass just as written

Because of this one can know that the Lord is in control of His creation and that His Word recorded in the scriptures of the Bible is true .... all of it .... from cover to cover

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 08-29-2015 1:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-29-2015 4:56 PM Straightshot has responded
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 08-30-2015 2:18 PM Straightshot has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 36 of 48 (767480)
08-29-2015 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Straightshot
08-29-2015 4:10 PM


Both Nebuchadnezzar and Alexander the great attacked Tyre [the original coastal island city] .... and it is this Tyre that is no more

http://www.padfield.com/1994/tyre.html

Also understand that when the Lord brings destruction to a city or nation, the destruction comes to the people of the day .... but this does not mean that future cities will not be built later on the same topography

"I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD." --- Ezekiel 26:14.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 4:10 PM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 8:22 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 37 of 48 (767504)
08-30-2015 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Dr Adequate
08-29-2015 4:56 PM


When the Lord warns and tells of things to come related to the destruction of a people and their city or nation because of their intransigent behavior it will always come to pass .... and the evidence is always proven by the historical record

This does not mean that He erred just because another later human effort to build again in the same location takes place

His will is always accomplished in all that He sets out to do .... no doubt

He knows the ending from the beginning of all things

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-29-2015 4:56 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Coragyps, posted 08-30-2015 1:13 PM Straightshot has responded
 Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2015 1:35 PM Straightshot has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5288
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 38 of 48 (767525)
08-30-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Straightshot
08-30-2015 8:22 AM


So "you will never be rebuilt" means "well, yeah, you will be rebuilt" in God-speak? That's pretty odd to the rest of us.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 8:22 AM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 1:23 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 39 of 48 (767527)
08-30-2015 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Coragyps
08-30-2015 1:13 PM


I see that your rating doesn't look very high Coragyps

Where is Snyder, Texas?

I do know what your problem is .... most people have it

Here is what you need to do .... and if you do, then you will be able to discern the Lord's prophetic prose

If you don't, you will never get it

John
3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Coragyps, posted 08-30-2015 1:13 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 40 of 48 (767532)
08-30-2015 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Straightshot
08-30-2015 8:22 AM


This does not mean that He erred just because another later human effort to build again in the same location takes place

If someone says that a city will never be rebuilt, and then the city is rebuilt, then that is in fact an error.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 8:22 AM Straightshot has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13631
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 41 of 48 (767540)
08-30-2015 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Straightshot
08-29-2015 4:10 PM


Straightshot writes:

I don't have to prove anything to you....


I never suggested that you do. You predicted what I would find and I told you what I actually did find. Your prediction, like the prophecy, was wrong.

Straightshot writes:

Also understand that when the Lord brings destruction to a city or nation, the destruction comes to the people of the day .... but this does not mean that future cities will not be built later on the same topography


So when Ezekiel said "thou shalt be built no more" what he really meant was "thou shalt be built no more until thou art rebuilt"? That's pretty thin.

I agree with you that the prophecy was not intended to apply to the distant future. What Ezekiel actually said was an exaggeration. It was rhetoric, not intended to be taken literally.

You can take the Bible literally or you can admit the prophecy failed. You can't have it both ways.

Straightshot writes:

Here is an example of a future and similar event that is coming....


You're shooting yourself in the foot. You admitted that the prophecy about Tyre didn't apply to the far future and now you're claiming that the prophecy in Revelation does. You can't have it both ways.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Straightshot, posted 08-29-2015 4:10 PM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 4:25 PM ringo has responded

  
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 42 of 48 (767577)
08-30-2015 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by ringo
08-30-2015 2:18 PM


Two different prophecies

The first fulfilled

.... the next still pending

Do you understand that time moves on a linear continuum?

Circular lapsing is not the way the universe works .... what is past .... is past

What is future .... will be .... future

No "ringo" business allowed

Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 08-30-2015 2:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 08-31-2015 12:06 PM Straightshot has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13631
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 43 of 48 (767645)
08-31-2015 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Straightshot
08-30-2015 4:25 PM


Straightshot writes:

Two different prophecies


No, we're talking about one prophecy, the prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed forever. The rebuilding of Tyre was not foreseen, thus either the prophecy was not completely fulfilled or it was not intended to be taken literally in the first place.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Straightshot, posted 08-30-2015 4:25 PM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 7:30 AM ringo has responded

  
Straightshot
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 89
From: Mitchell SD USA
Joined: 08-25-2015


Message 44 of 48 (767705)
09-01-2015 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
08-31-2015 12:06 PM


Literally fulfilled

Nothing you can do


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 08-31-2015 12:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-01-2015 11:34 AM Straightshot has not yet responded
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 11:46 AM Straightshot has responded
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-01-2015 1:22 PM Straightshot has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 45 of 48 (767727)
09-01-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straightshot
09-01-2015 7:30 AM


Literally fulfilled

Nothing you can do

Good, good. So, just to be clear about this. The prophecy that Tyre would never be rebuilt has been literally fulfilled.

And also, this is a photograph of modern-day Tyre, the fourth largest city in Lebanon.

Tell me, what do you think the word "literally" means? And, indeed, "fulfilled"?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 7:30 AM Straightshot has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13631
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 46 of 48 (767728)
09-01-2015 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straightshot
09-01-2015 7:30 AM


Straightshot writes:

Literally fulfilled


You have very low standards. You are not "testing all things" as Paul instructed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 7:30 AM Straightshot has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Straightshot, posted 09-01-2015 12:35 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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