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Author Topic:   When does human life begin?
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(3)
Message 20 of 327 (649467)
01-23-2012 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by shadow71
01-23-2012 2:39 PM


Re: Conceptuses
What if it's 47 chromosomes? What if there is a major birth defect and the ensuing child will suffer every waking moment? What if this defect isn't discovered until 25 weeks? 36 weeks? Can you tell a set of parents they have to care for this child that will need round the clock care and this will involve them both quitting their jobs? Who then will help them out? Who pays for the care? What if this child that is forced into this world needs life saving surgery and the parents insurance provider says "ooh, sorry, not covered" and the ensuing bills put them in the poor house? In the unlikely event you say "well, if there are defects or problems, then abortion would be ok" where is your moral compass to say one life is worth more than another, regardless if there are defects? ALL (human) life is worth saving, right? What about a woman who falls and has a miscarriage? Should she be charged with murder, manslaughter or negligent homicide? The same goes for when the fertilized egg doesn't stick. Maybe we could contact DCFS when the fertilized egg gets implanted outside the uterus: we could charge her with a hostile living environment?
These are very much rhetorical questions that I don't particular have a solid stance on other than to say I am pro-choice. They are just there to provoke the thought of those who are anti-choice. "Life" is a grey area and those who are "pro"-life have yet to substantially define it so as to properly defend it.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by shadow71, posted 01-23-2012 2:39 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by shadow71, posted 01-23-2012 8:28 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 31 of 327 (649493)
01-23-2012 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Just being real
01-23-2012 5:31 PM


millions of murders take place each year in the name of convenience.
You had me going there for a minute. Up until this sentence, I thought you were being completely rational. For the most part though, you were. Just how convenient is it to get an abortion? Do you honestly think that the majority of abortions are by young women who sleep around unprotected, get pregnant then use abortion as birth control? Do you have ANY idea what toll an abortion takes on a woman? Do you really think it is a decision ANY woman makes over her morning coffee? "Well, off to my abortion. Gonna go have some more unprotected sex right after"? Granted, there are people who do this, but for every one that does, there are a handful of other women who medically need the procedure or it is the most absolutely devistating decision they make in their entire life and only do so because of a mistake. I know two women who had abortions and trust me, it wasn't "convenient".

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 42 of 327 (649511)
01-23-2012 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by shadow71
01-23-2012 8:28 PM


Re: Conceptuses
I say all lifes are equal
So an unborn foetus that is 18 weeks old is just as valuable as the woman who is hosting this foetus?
and no man has the right to terminate a life.
I'm not talking about men. I'm talking about the woman that is providing the life, without which there IS no child.
It is quite a different situation from having a miscarriage to making the intentional decision to terminate a life no matter in what stage that life may be.
And yet, you've failed to actually provide any evidence or even reason for this other than your personal testimony.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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 Message 41 by shadow71, posted 01-23-2012 8:28 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by shadow71, posted 01-25-2012 3:16 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 87 of 327 (649667)
01-24-2012 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by shadow71
01-24-2012 8:29 PM


I would choose to allow my child to live.
As would most anyone. However, we aren't talking about children, are we? We are talking about clumps of cells that could potentially turn into children..... But this is the sort of rhetoric that is to be expected from the anti-choice camp: "you're killing children!". Tug on the heart strings and make the other side out to be kid-killing monsters.....

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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 Message 85 by shadow71, posted 01-24-2012 8:29 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 113 by shadow71, posted 01-25-2012 3:51 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 107 of 327 (649798)
01-25-2012 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by shadow71
01-25-2012 3:16 PM


Re: Conceptuses
Typically, the accepted response to a "question" is an "answer", not another question.
If in fact the fetus has human life
We (you) have yet to determine when this fetus gets this nebulous thing called "life", hence the thread.
It seems pretty clear that there is quite a difference from a woman having a miscarriage and a woman having an abortion. Do you disagree?
Yes, I do. One is murder, the other is negligent homicide. If I "accidentally" kill you, do I get off scott free?

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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 Message 105 by shadow71, posted 01-25-2012 3:16 PM shadow71 has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 114 of 327 (649808)
01-25-2012 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by shadow71
01-25-2012 3:51 PM


As an aside, that perhaps I should not have gotten into, is the abortion issue.
Really? Is that why you mentioned it numerous times in your OP?
I can see Percy getting upset about being off thread.
It's not off topic because it was in your OP.
So all I wanted were whether there are medical, scientific facts or opinions as to when human life begins.
That has been answered. Whether your beliefs allowed them to be satisfactory answers is another question entirely. If this was merely a topic to ask whether or not there is scientific consensus as to when life begins, you would have been better off doing so in the "quick questions, short answers, no debate" thread. However, it seems that you've no answers to tough questions (which is fine, but a non-answer is better than a dodge answer which is all you've given).
If you'd rather not address your anti-choice position, I would suggest you rewrite your OP and make your next post one that says "I do not wish to discuss abortion in this thread".

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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 Message 113 by shadow71, posted 01-25-2012 3:51 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(4)
Message 122 of 327 (649820)
01-25-2012 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by shadow71
01-25-2012 4:39 PM


Re: Conceptuses
I am truly saddened when a woman miscarries...
Did you even read the text you quoted? Let me rehash the important bit:
quote:
If a woman miscarries without knowing
How can you be "saddened" if no one knows she miscarried? Hell, just because she takes a morning after pill doesn't even mean there was something "there" the morning after.
For me life has begun when the Lord says it has begun.
The moment you bring your deity/belief/religion into the discussion is the moment you remove yourself from dictating what other people do. You are free to have an opinion on the matter and use your belief to base that opinion, but that opinion holds no weight with anyone other than yourself or perhaps others who hold that same belief. Oddly enough, different people, believing in the same "lord" as you, reading from the same book, will say life begins at a different time than you do. What does that say about the validity of this "lord" of yours in determining when life begins?

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by shadow71, posted 01-25-2012 4:39 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by shadow71, posted 01-25-2012 7:14 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(3)
Message 133 of 327 (649837)
01-25-2012 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by shadow71
01-25-2012 7:14 PM


Re: Conceptuses
What saddens me is the intent of the woman who took the morning pill in full knowledge that it will abort the baby developing in her womb.
There is no "baby developing in her womb" the morning after sex. You do know what a baby is, don't you? I'm glad you aren't addressing the meat of anything I reply to you, but rather snippets of shit that aren't furthering the discussion.
Why would she take the pill if she doesn't want to abort?
REALLY???? Do you even know what the morning after pill is? How can you expect to have this discussion on an adult level if you don't even understand that the morning after pill is not an abortion?????
What your are saying is that my opinions if based on my beliefs are inferior to your opinions that are based upon your beliefs.
I don't have "beliefs". I have facts I accept based on evidence, reason and the scienctific method. You, on the other hand, have beliefs and those beliefs are archaic and based on ancient tribal myths, holding no value in today's society.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 236 of 327 (650654)
02-01-2012 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by shadow71
02-01-2012 12:02 PM


Re: Previous thread/s
I also have a difficult time accepting the loss of zygotes per the articles....
My prayer is that those zygots are in a better place.
I have to call Poe on this (and on you in general). Either that, or you have absolutely zero clue what a zygote is.... I'd venture a guess that if we showed you a picture of an amoeba and told you it was a human zygote you'd both believe it AND realize that you had never seen one before.
hint: a zygote is not a cute fluffy little baby.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by shadow71, posted 02-01-2012 12:02 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 239 by shadow71, posted 02-01-2012 7:25 PM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 246 by Kairyu, posted 02-02-2012 10:21 AM hooah212002 has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 242 of 327 (650670)
02-01-2012 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by shadow71
02-01-2012 7:25 PM


Re: Previous thread/s
What's juvenile about pointing out your absurd notion of "praying" for a single cell? I think your "praying" is the absurd bit. Perhaps even more absurd is thinking you'll acknowledge how ridiculous you sound saying you pray for zygotes and hope they are "in a better place".
Didn't actually think about it before you typed it, did ya?
"Oh heavenly father, bless these skin cells I have shed today. Please bestow your mercy upon them".

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by shadow71, posted 02-01-2012 7:25 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by shadow71, posted 02-03-2012 3:32 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 280 of 327 (650966)
02-03-2012 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by shadow71
02-03-2012 3:32 PM


Re: Previous thread/s
Go back and read bluegenes Message 235 because that image is the answer to your implied question. To answer your direct question: you are free to "pray" for whatever you want. I am just pointing out that it is a futile and deceiptful effort given that a zygote is not a human being but rather a single cell.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by shadow71, posted 02-03-2012 3:32 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by shadow71, posted 02-04-2012 3:36 PM hooah212002 has not replied

  
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