Anti-Science bill in Indiana.....

The theory of evolution is part of science. As such, it does belong in the science classroom. The driving purpose of science education is that the students learn the leading ideas of science, which includes evolution.It actually should be in creationists' interest for evolution to be taught in science class, so that the creationist kids can learn what evolution is so that they can oppose it most effectively. As in the most simplistic expression of Sun Tzu's teaching of "know your enemy".And yet, creationist Christians (since there are far more non-creation-science Christians) vehemently oppose the teaching of evolution, meaning that they do not want their own children to learn enough about evolution to be able to oppose it. Why is that? Could it be because if their children were to actually learn what evolution really is, as opposed to the outright lies that their parents are teaching them, then they would realize that all that their parents have been teaching them are nothing but outright lies?Here's the real creationist nightmare, that teachers would present creationism and expose it for the complete and utter bullshit that it is.

How about you list the inconsistencies for us? You never know, some of them might not be inconsistencies, just a misunderstanding on your part. You may even come up with one that evolutionists can't explain. If that happens, you'd have done humanity a great service in exposing the folly of evolution. You'd be famous!You'd have to remember, however, to remain honest. You can't vomit forth lies and falsehoods such as I've put the lie in bold and italics to save any confusion.

Information derived from religious beliefs should not be taught in core classes that are required for graduation. They should be available in elective classes.A religious institution can present a class on comparing evolution with creation. Why put it in the public school system? It is the job of the religious institutions to teach their followers.In this country, people are not required to have a religion or learn about a religion or religious beliefs. It is a choice. When we stuff it into required classes, it is no longer a choice.If Creationists want to battle over TOE, then do it in the adult world. Don't make our children the pawns in an adult battle.Other than the need to recruit, I see no reason for anything based on a religious belief to be presented in public schools in required classes. That is the job of their chosen religious institution.Our public schools teach the concensus on issues to date. It is not the place to present all sides of every issue. There isn't time. A certain amount of information needs to be presented in a specific amount of time. There's no time for debate. Today, with the internet, students can look up all sides of an issue whenever they want and discuss it with their parents, friends, or debate forums.Why the need for creation science to be taught along side TOE in a public school setting instead of a religious institution?

Hi Chuck,If you'd like to discuss how small evolutionary changes accumulate over time there's actually a thread about it that is still open: When does microevolution turn into macroevolution?--PercyEdited by Percy, : Grammar.

How is this so far? Any suggestions on wording or punctuation is welcome.

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Heck, i'd even take them just showing all of the inconsistancies of the TOE instead of Teaching Creationism or ID.

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Absolutely. After all, who ever heard of a crocoduck?

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After everyone saw the whole story im sure after time schools would start adopting other theories to teach than one with no evidence suppoting it's theory

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Yep.Then they can start teaching the true stories with real historical evidence... Selected snippets taken from here and here.After all with this much evidence of the Trojan War to back it up. The rest of the Greek histories must be true too. We have even discovered the real location of Mt Olympus. Some have foolishly claimed that this can't be true but The Mountain is far too high for any human to ever climb. So it can never be disproved. No matter how hard they try. The ones who say that they have are clearly lying.Down with atheist propaganda!Edited by Warthog, : grammatical gremlin squashing

Actually, the New England puritans were strong theocrats. They were extreme religious bigots, and their problem at the time in England was that they were failing to impose their views on everyone else.After the migration of the New Englanders, the puritans did gain power in England, and started on their persecution of everyone who disagreed with them, including the Quakers. It is at this point that religious refugees like the Quakers start to arrive in large numbers in America.It was the Puritan persecution and the hanging of the Quaker Boston martyrs that triggered the end of their strict theocracy in New England. They had lost power in England by this time, and the restoration monarchy forced the New Englanders to stop killing Quakers.To bring this on topic, these "pilgrims" would thoroughly approve of creationism and only creationism being taught in schools. The modern protestant religious right are their natural heirs. The moderns complain of persecution in the same way that the early 17th century puritans did in England. It's because they are failing to impose their views on the rest of you, not because you're actually persecuting them.

I don't care how you see me. I know that your attacks are indiscriminate and therefore they don't carry any weight with me.And I didn't attack atheists. I even acknowledged that I was just as likely to follow the course of action as an atheist. I don't even believe the course of action that I described was a dishonorable one. Yet a creationist would find the action abhorrent.You appear to be looking for a fight, when you aren't being opposed. I'm not going to oblige you any further.

Hi PD!Not sure why you're replying to me. The only thing I'd comment on is something that already caught someone else's attention: I like to say that the Pilgrims fled European religious persecution for the freedom America offered for acting upon their own religious prejudices.In my own personal experience, though I think I write a damn good emotional appeal if I do say so myself, the writing I'm proudest of and that seems most effective sticks to the facts.--Percy

Here is a creation story for them to teach in Indiana. You're all for teaching this, I presume?

The Creation of Men and Women

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When the world was finished, there were as yet no people, but the Bald Eagle was chief of the animals. He saw that the world was incomplete and decided to make some human beings. So he took some clay and modeled the figure of a man and laid him on the ground. At first he was very small but he grew rapidly until he reached normal size. But as yet he had no life; he was still asleep. Then the Bald Eagle stood and admired his work. "It is impossible," he said, "that he should be left alone; he must have a mate." So he pulled out a feather and laid it beside the sleeping man. Then he left them and went off a short distance, for he knew that a woman was being formed from the feather. But the man was still asleep and did not know what was happening. When the Bald Eagle decided that the woman was about completed, he returned, awoke the man by flapping his wings over him and flew away.

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The man opened his eyes and stared at the woman. "What does this mean?" he asked. "I thought I was alone!" Then the Bald Eagle returned and said with a smile, "I see you have a mate! Have you had intercourse with her?" "No," replied he man, for he and the woman knew nothing about each other. Then the Bald Eagle called to Coyote who happened to be going by and said to him, "Do you see that woman? Try her first!" Coyote was quite willing and complied, but immediately afterwards lay down and died. The Bald Eagle went away and left Coyote dead, but presently returned and revived him. "How did it work?" said the Bald Eagle. "Pretty well, but it nearly kills a man!" replied Coyote. "Will you try it again?" said the Bald Eagle. Coyote agreed, and tried again, and this time survived. Then the Bald Eagle turned to the man and said, "She is all right now; you and she are to live together.

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California Indian creation story

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Coyote was quite willing and complied, but immediately afterwards lay down and died.

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Geez, it's tough being a Coyote.

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The Bald Eagle went away and left Coyote dead, but presently returned and revived him.

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Good thing too or you wouldn't be telling us this story.

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Coyote agreed, and tried again

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Don't we all...

How about this instead?

Excellent overview of the Pilgrims and Puritans. I do not think a more exclusive less tolerant group has ever been so idealized and idolized. Their true beliefs should be given more attention when children are taught US history. Their treatment of the native population in New England will show more vividly what these people were actually like..

Much better, but I hope you don't mind if I nit-pick a bit. Firstly, there's no such thing as "science based on a religious belief", so something like "if we allow religious belief to be presented as science in a core course" might be better. The words "their own religions" could be wiped as well, because they're redundant.But much improved by the absence of the bloody puritans, so I'll grade you 8 out of 10, young Dawn.* *I'll have no implicit colour discrimination in this class.

History curricula has always been subject to all kinds of political manipulation by school boards and concerned citizens, and there are essentially no first amendment implications in twisting and tilting history. As a result we see efforts to remove Thomas Jefferson from history, to pretend that large number of slaves willingly fought for the South in the civil war, and to thoroughly discredit anything other than unfettered capitalism. It shouldn't be any surprise that intolerance is re-branded as religious freedom in history textbooks.