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Author Topic:   Whether to leave this forum or not
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(2)
Message 45 of 307 (655439)
03-10-2012 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by foreveryoung
03-10-2012 2:32 AM


Sure, but I haven't stated that my opinions are facts; you have.
The question this raises, of course, is whether it is important to you that your opinions be based on facts, or at least not inconsistent with them. Only you can answer that question. But be warned, if you decide that it is, you will have to change your opinions as you learn new facts. If changing your opinions does not appeal to you, then perhaps it would be best, for your sake, that you leave here. Because if you stay, and if you learn, you will discover that at present your opinions are quite inconsistent with known facts.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 2:32 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 46 of 307 (655441)
03-10-2012 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by foreveryoung
03-10-2012 11:51 AM


I still don't understand why I have to have evidence...
Because science is based on evidence. Science goes where the evidence leads, and the conclusions follow from the evidence.
...when "evidence" means I can only substantiate my claims with stuff you guys agree with.
I guarantee you that any person here who is interested in science will examine any evidence you offer, whether it agrees with what we think or not. If the evidence does indeed support your position, we will accept it. That is the commitment we make when we engage in scientific investigation.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 11:51 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 12:05 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 51 of 307 (655446)
03-10-2012 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by foreveryoung
03-10-2012 12:05 PM


There are countless sources on the internet that provide endless amounts of evidence. And there are any number of people here who would would gladly help you find it. In fact, as I understand it, in another thread, you've already been given an introduction to searching for scientific papers on the 'net.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 12:05 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 12:26 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(3)
Message 58 of 307 (655453)
03-10-2012 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by foreveryoung
03-10-2012 12:23 PM


Re: Despised POVs
A christian is going to believe what they do regardless of what you present to them.
This is something we know all too well.
I try to avoid to jumping to conclusions, but it seems to me, based on your chosen handle and some of the things you've said here, that you are a relatively young person, late teens or early 20s. Many of us here have been studying science generally and creationism in particular for longer than you have been alive. I say this not to denigrate you in any way, but to give you insight into our perspective.
We have seen dozens of creationists, cdesign proponentists, and IDists come and go. Occasionally, one or two will stay, learn something, and see that everything they thought they knew about science was wrong. Occasionally, one or two will stay, never learn anything, and continue to post the same errors.
To those of us who've been doing this ten years or more, this process can get a little tiresome. We can lose patience. We often speak in shorthand that we have developed to make our points quickly, but forget that someone new to the discussion does not have the same reference framework that we do. I think this is human nature. If it comes off and terse, insulting and indicative of disdain for those in the conversation, that is to our mutual detriment. But if you consider for a moment our history, and the many, many times we've had to present the same evidence to answer the same questions, only to have that evidence usually dismissed, perhaps you can understand why it happens.
Also, this is the internet, and there are some asshats here.
If there were fewer creationists who believe what they believe and aren't willing to consider new ideas and new evidence, perhaps we wouldn't be so quick to take the low road.
Also, I'd take issue with your use of the word "christian." There are many christians in science and here in the forum who understand the science and can reconcile it with their religious beliefs. Not all christians are unwilling to examie the evidence and reform their ideas based on what they learn. That, perhaps, is the key characteristic that separates creationists and IDist from christians. Something to think about.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 12:23 PM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 59 of 307 (655454)
03-10-2012 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by foreveryoung
03-10-2012 12:26 PM


That is quite common among creationists.
I suggest you begin here. You will find a broad collection of evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution. If there is anything there you don't understand or wish to discuss, feel free to start a new thread on that point.
I also have a suggestion. When you don't know something, the way to begin learning is to ask questions rather than making statements. I think you will find virtually everyone here is more than willing to help someone learn, and is considerably more patient with someone who asks questions rather than makes statements that we know to be inaccurate.
This is a debate site, so there will always be folks wanting to argue with you. But it is also a discussion site, and we've all been here long enough to know that we know things most people don't. And we're always happy to share with those who want to learn, if you do truly want to learn.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by foreveryoung, posted 03-10-2012 12:26 PM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 226 of 307 (656861)
03-22-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 2:01 AM


Inefficient thread
You know, if you had just started this thread with this post, you could have saved us all a lot of time, and Percy a bit of bandwidth. But perhaps you weren't yet ready to show your true stripes.
You can all go to hell.
Yes, but do you have any evidence of this hell of which you speak?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 2:01 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by foreveryoung, posted 04-13-2012 12:08 AM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(8)
Message 232 of 307 (659158)
04-13-2012 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by foreveryoung
04-13-2012 12:08 AM


Definition of evidence
Fact f is evidence supporting hypothesis h if the existence of f makes h more likely.
For example, if the hypothesis is that creationists are whiny little babies who can't take criticism and eventually resort to insults and melodramatic exits, only to repeatedly return, your behavior at this site in general and in this thread in particular would be evidence in support of that hypothesis.
Is that a clear enough definition for you, Cupcake?
Edited by subbie, : subtitle
Edited by subbie, : subtitle tyop

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by foreveryoung, posted 04-13-2012 12:08 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 236 of 307 (659193)
04-13-2012 10:36 AM


PM received from foreveryoung at 11:34 p.m.:
Fuck you
If nothing else, you gotta give the little pissant credit for staying on message.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(3)
Message 301 of 307 (659440)
04-15-2012 11:08 PM


Summation
A creo stops by, finds he cannot compete in a genuine evidence-based argument and gets pissy about it. He has a pity party and storms out of the room in a melodramatic temper tantrum with vague threats of never returning which he promptly forgets about. He then charges back in, hurling insults at everything and everyone in a display of projection seldom seen outside of a 24 screen multiplex.
Rational people calmly try to get him to step back from the ledge because we need a few creos here, at least for the entertainment value if nothing else. A couple of creo cheerleaders jump in to buck up the spirits of our hero, with some apparent success.
Will he stay or will he leave for good? If he does stay, how long will it be before the next string of "fuck you"s pour forth as if from the fountains of the deep? Can man survive on congnitive dissonance alone? These questions and more will be answered on the next episode of How the Stomach Turns.
BTW, I don't hate you. How can I hate anyone who provides as much comic relief as you do?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

  
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