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Author Topic:   How do "novel" features evolve?
subbie
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 50 of 314 (659816)
04-18-2012 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by intellen
04-18-2012 9:54 PM


Re: how populations evolve
The key portion in both quotes is "from generation to generation." The changes do not take place in individual organisms after they are born. The changes are between one generation and the next.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by intellen, posted 04-18-2012 9:54 PM intellen has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(2)
Message 81 of 314 (659899)
04-19-2012 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by intellen
04-19-2012 1:25 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
No, you are completely wrong.
You asked a specific question: what happens if an environment changes and the population hasn't time to move somewhere else. In that case, the population dies. This has in fact happened in the past, we can find evidence for it. But each time that has happened, other populations were able to survive, and thrive in the new environment.
The history of life on the earth is dominated by extinction. Millions of species have gone extinct. In every case, however, other species moved in. There are massive amounts of evidence to show that this took place. This extinction of one species doesn't necessarily lead to the extinction of another species.
If the environment of the entire planet were to change in such a way that no life could survive, it would become a dead planet. That obviously hasn't happened.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 1:25 PM intellen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 1:57 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 84 of 314 (659903)
04-19-2012 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by intellen
04-19-2012 1:57 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
There are several questions there, and I'm not sure I understand them all. But I strongly suspect you are not understanding my point.
The doggies do not live in the middle of an otherwise lifeless desert. There are thousands of other species in the environment as well. If all the doggies go extinct, that will open up opportunities for other organisms to thrive. Perhaps doggies were competing with wolfies for food. With doggies gone, wolfies may increase. Perhaps doggies were eating kitties. Since fewer kitties are being eaten, they may see a population increase.
Any species going extinct will change the competitive balance of the enviroment that the species inhabited.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 1:57 PM intellen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 10:03 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 115 of 314 (659970)
04-19-2012 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by intellen
04-19-2012 10:03 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
Yeah, there are thousands of another species, that means, natural selection cannot be the caused of the origin of the new species, therefore, evolution is wrong.
You need to explain why you think natural selection cannot result in the creation of new species instead of simply saying so.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 10:03 PM intellen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 11:45 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 118 of 314 (659974)
04-20-2012 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by intellen
04-19-2012 11:45 PM


Re: how populations evolve - when is it "novel"?
It's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
First, we've told you countless times, organisms don't evolve, populations do. This is not simply a matter of semantics. This is basic. If you don't understand this fact, and I believe you do not, you will never understand anything.
Second, yes, sometimes a population can move in response to environmental changes. But sometimes the population evolves. If you believe this is not so, you need to explain why.
Third, evolution is a form of adaptation.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by intellen, posted 04-19-2012 11:45 PM intellen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by intellen, posted 04-20-2012 12:39 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
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