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Author Topic:   Accretion Theory and an alternative
Percy
Member
Posts: 15491
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 211 of 257 (656783)
03-22-2012 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 1:59 AM


Re: Accretion problems and exoplanets
foreveryoung writes:

I am here to discuss ideas. I don't have the evidence you guys want so either ignore me or quite asking me to do that.

This is a science-based debate site, you need evidence to discuss here, it's in the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 1:59 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
rueh
Member (Idle past 1012 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


(2)
Message 212 of 257 (656799)
03-22-2012 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Jet Thomson
03-22-2012 2:59 AM


Re: Math anyone?
jt writes:

It is suggested that this link is proof SMBH’s play a fundamental role in the creation of the universe.

No one has denied that. These black holes just do not play the role that you suggest. No where in your article does it offer any credence to the argument as you have presented it.
jt writes:

I forgot to say bye bye! I am off to discuss this where new theories are usually not accepted.

Why go? No one accepted your ideas here either.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Jet Thomson, posted 03-22-2012 2:59 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Percy, posted 03-22-2012 8:47 AM rueh has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9324
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 213 of 257 (656802)
03-22-2012 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 1:51 AM


Re: Accretion problems and exoplanets
foreveryoung writes:

Fuck you and all the assholes who gave me negative reps.

Long expected meltdown ... now imminent.

As Mike the Cool person once said...

quote:
MIKE: Rick, I don't wish to suggest your jokes are predictable, but there are as-of-yet undiscovered tribes in the heart of the Peruvian jungle, who knew you were going to say that.

Don't let the door knob hit ya, where the good Lord split ya.

Edited by NoNukes, : Repair quote marks. I want that w/quote button back...


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 1:51 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15491
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 214 of 257 (656803)
03-22-2012 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by rueh
03-22-2012 8:18 AM


Re: Math anyone?
rueh writes:

jt writes:

I forgot to say bye bye! I am off to discuss this where new theories are usually not accepted.

Why go? No one accepted your ideas here either.

I think JT misspoke and actually intended to say that he was going where new theories are not *rejected*. Of course, what he considers rejection is actually just careful scrutiny, which is the best one could wish for a new idea.

JT probably believes the harsh scrutiny was because of close-mindedness and antagonism toward new ideas. People usually project their own qualities onto others, and so he probably believes everyone here knows as little of science as he does, so he felt free to ignore what we told him about what the evidence actually indicates.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by rueh, posted 03-22-2012 8:18 AM rueh has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by rueh, posted 03-22-2012 8:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
rueh
Member (Idle past 1012 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 215 of 257 (656806)
03-22-2012 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Percy
03-22-2012 8:47 AM


Re: Math anyone?
percy writes:

I think JT misspoke and actually intended to say that he was going where new theories are not *rejected*.

Of course. Just thought I would have a little fun with him since by his actions he is not here to have an actual discussion. Though I think he will find that anywhere he goes his ideas will be met with scrutiny and critisizm. The way that they should be. If his ideas had any merit than they and he should be able to weather that scrutiny. You can see how well that has gone so far though. Something tells me he will instead choose to go to a creation site where every one can pat his ass and tell him how right he is. Even though they are all as clueless as he.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Percy, posted 03-22-2012 8:47 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11176
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 216 of 257 (656822)
03-22-2012 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 1:51 AM


Re: Accretion problems and exoplanets
Fuck you and all the assholes who gave me negative reps.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 1:51 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5700
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 217 of 257 (656825)
03-22-2012 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 1:51 AM


Feel the love
Isn't christian love so beautiful.

Really? Really?
You got nothing?
Do you even know what accretion theory is?
The key to success here is to know at least a little about the thread you are posting in.
Maybe you should go to school and take some classes on science. Then in 4-5 years you can come back and discuss things on a freshman college level.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 1:51 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6014
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 218 of 257 (656836)
03-22-2012 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 1:54 AM


Re: Evidence
Fuck you. I have told you all for the upteenth time. That i am here to discuss ideas. I don't have the type of evidence you assholes are looking for. Go to hell if you don't like the topic I want to discuss.

I would hope that you would actually want to figure out if your ideas are correct or not. Anyone can make something up. Anyone can play make-believe. What we are interested in is if something is part of reality. For that, you need evidence.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 1:54 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15474
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 219 of 257 (656893)
03-22-2012 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by foreveryoung
03-22-2012 1:54 AM


Re: Evidence
Fuck you. I have told you all for the upteenth time. That i am here to discuss ideas. I don't have the type of evidence you assholes are looking for. Go to hell if you don't like the topic I want to discuss.

Well, you know, if you start discussing an idea then one of the things people are going to want to discuss is "Is your idea true or false?" and "How do you know?" In fact, there hardly seems to be anything else one can discuss about an idea. I suppose one could ask: "Can you express it in rhyming couplets?" or "Is there an apt metaphor for your idea that involves anteaters?" but in the end what really interests people about ideas is their truth or falsehood.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by foreveryoung, posted 03-22-2012 1:54 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
Jet Thomson
Member (Idle past 1731 days)
Posts: 86
From: Tucson, Az USA
Joined: 03-10-2012


Message 220 of 257 (656912)
03-23-2012 2:09 AM


Ejecta from the sun
Hello. I stopped by with a beer in one hand and a sponge on a 'pole' in the other. Check out the article from this web site:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2011/07/110701101750.htm

Basically the article explains that ejecta from the sun captured by a space probe and returned to earth showed that the particles were slightly different from similar particles on the earth and other planets and asteroids.

My conclusion is that the force event of planetary ejection caused the particles to be altered slightly. This conclusion is far superior to the conclusion derived from the accretion model, which is so far, nothing. No one should be surprised if the answer is 'its a mystery'. Hurry, this story is already old.

At any rate, my conlusion is supported by this paragraph in the article. Speaking about the pariticles, particularly Oxygen:

"It's the most abundant element in the Earth, and it is isotopically anomalous," he said, adding that something chemically unusual happened to the material that eventually formed Earth and other rocky planets some 4.6 billion years ago, after the sun had already formed.

Of course, as always, the main point of the article is that based on current models, we have yet another unexplained discovery.
Bye!


Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Panda, posted 03-23-2012 6:04 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded
 Message 222 by Son Goku, posted 03-23-2012 6:18 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded
 Message 223 by rueh, posted 03-23-2012 7:00 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded
 Message 224 by Percy, posted 03-23-2012 7:22 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded
 Message 225 by NoNukes, posted 03-23-2012 11:10 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1064 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 221 of 257 (656919)
03-23-2012 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Jet Thomson
03-23-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Ejecta from the sun
JT writes:

My conclusion is that the force event of planetary ejection caused the particles to be altered slightly.


But your conclusion is completely ruled out by my conclusion that it is magic fairies that caused the particles to be altered slightly.
Your conclusion is therefore wrong.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Jet Thomson, posted 03-23-2012 2:09 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

  
Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1059
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 222 of 257 (656922)
03-23-2012 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Jet Thomson
03-23-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Ejecta from the sun
Hello Jet,

Earlier in the thread you claimed that if we saw a black hole eating a star your theories were "finished". I provided you with a link to such a report and you claimed that it didn't count because the black hole is outside our galaxy. You never explained why black holes outside our galaxy don't count. Could you do so?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Jet Thomson, posted 03-23-2012 2:09 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 1012 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


(1)
Message 223 of 257 (656923)
03-23-2012 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Jet Thomson
03-23-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Ejecta from the sun
jt writes:

Basically the article explains that ejecta from the sun captured by a space probe and returned to earth showed that the particles were slightly different from similar particles on the earth and other planets and asteroids.

Then that totaly defeats your idea. You claim that the Earth was formed by being ejected from the Sun. However, particles ejected from the Sun were found to be different than what we find here on Earth. Then the Earth could not have been born from an ejecta from the Sun. If your idea had any merit, then we should see that particles that we know have been ejected from the Sun match particles here on Earth.

jt writes:

At any rate, my conlusion is supported by this paragraph in the article.

No your conclusion is refuted by the article.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX
It takes all kinds to make a mess- Benjamin Hoff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Jet Thomson, posted 03-23-2012 2:09 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 15491
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 224 of 257 (656924)
03-23-2012 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Jet Thomson
03-23-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Ejecta from the sun
Hi JT,

One thing we find most puzzling about creationists, and it's a quality you share with them, is that they're completely unbothered, even blasé, about their errors. Here in this thread about the origins of the solar system where you have gotten almost nothing right, you have now added to your already lengthy list of errors. The article you cite (Sun and Planets Constructed Differently, Analysis from NASA Mission Suggests) is evidence *against* your ejection idea:

"We found that the Earth and moon, as well as Martian and other meteorites, which are samples of asteroids, have a lower concentration of the O-16 than does the sun," McKeegan said. "The implication is that we did not form out of the same solar nebula materials that created the sun. Just how and why remains to be discovered."

Since the Earth is formed from isotopically different material than the sun, it could not have formed through being ejected from the sun, else its isotopic composition would have been identical.

Now here's the mystery. After making yet another fatal error one would expect that any normal person would pause, think, reflect, reconsider, and rededicate themselves to improving their knowledge, but something tells me that won't be the case here.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Jet Thomson, posted 03-23-2012 2:09 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9324
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 225 of 257 (656934)
03-23-2012 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Jet Thomson
03-23-2012 2:09 AM


Re: Ejecta from the sun
My conclusion is that the force event of planetary ejection caused the particles to be altered slightly. This conclusion is far superior to the conclusion derived from the accretion model, which is so far, nothing.

Ignorance is indeed bliss.

If you had read the article you would appreciate that the "particles" were different on the nuclear level rather than on the chemical level. Had you understood that, you would have been obliged to make up a convincing story about how that came to pass. But because you know jack-diddly-squat you are satisfied with spewing dubious crap with out the least shame.

No one should be surprised if the answer is 'its a mystery'.

The problem for you is that current theory already explains this issue. There is no need to make up nonsense.

FWIW, I could probably make up an answer that would explain the isotopic difference between oxygen in the sun and oxygen on earth using your ejecta scenario. But you cannot do so, because you aren't familiar with even the science that high school kids have mastered.

And as if you hadn't been insufferable enough, you celebrate your ignorance and have the gall and hubris to belittle people who actually know what they are talking about.

I tutor high school and college kids in math, physics, and chemistry several times a week, and I've never encountered from even the poorest student, the stubborn refusal to learn even the tiniest bit about those subjects as evidenced in every substantive post you make. It's actually something to celebrate when you get anything right.

To /dev/null with your hopeless behind.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Jet Thomson, posted 03-23-2012 2:09 AM Jet Thomson has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Percy, posted 03-23-2012 5:43 PM NoNukes has responded

    
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