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Author Topic:   Genesis 1:1-5 Day One
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 1600 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 76 of 110 (662249)
05-14-2012 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by ICANT
05-14-2012 2:03 AM


Re: light and life
Pure mythology. How did he write it when the israelites didn't have an alphabet until they allied themselves with The phoenicians ~950BCE, and adopted their alphabet?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ICANT, posted 05-14-2012 2:03 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 05-14-2012 10:45 AM bluescat48 has acknowledged this reply

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4638
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 77 of 110 (662260)
05-14-2012 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Jon
05-13-2012 7:49 PM


Re: The Light was Good
The quantum electron-entanglement paradox was unstable in these early days.

"The Bullshit is strong in this one"


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Jon, posted 05-13-2012 7:49 PM Jon has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 78 of 110 (662277)
05-14-2012 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by bluescat48
05-14-2012 2:10 AM


Re: light and life
Hi bluescat,

bluescat48 writes:

Pure mythology. How did he write it when the israelites didn't have an alphabet until they allied themselves with The phoenicians ~950BCE, and adopted their alphabet?

Egypt had writing 3000 BC and Moses was educated in the house of Pharoah as he was raised as the Pharoah's grandson. So Moses knew how to read and write.

I will not present more evidence as we are off topic.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by bluescat48, posted 05-14-2012 2:10 AM bluescat48 has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9541
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 79 of 110 (662462)
05-15-2012 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by ICANT
05-13-2012 2:24 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Every evening (the close of a light period) and the following morning (the end of a dark period) from the end of Day One has and will be a day until the end of time as mankind knows it.

The problem with your assertion is that every single one of the combined dark/light cycles on earth during a year is of a different length. In fact, such cycled differ in length at different places on earth. The combination of the facts that the earth has an elliptical orbit in which it's orbital speed varies with position in the orbit, and the fact that the year is not composed of an integral number of days results in a situation where the sum of the day and night periods differs measurably every single day as measured at any location. So when we say that an event takes 17.14234 days, which one of those days are we talking about?

Even the mean solar day for the entire year is not of constant length, although it varies far less than does the solar day during the year.

The truth of the matter is that we don't use dark/light cycles to define the hour or any other unit of time. The units we use are roughly equivalent in duration to units based on an average or mean solar day.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by ICANT, posted 05-13-2012 2:24 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2012 2:23 PM NoNukes has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 80 of 110 (662536)
05-16-2012 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by NoNukes
05-15-2012 11:37 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Hi No,

NoNukes writes:

The problem with your assertion is that every single one of the combined dark/light cycles on earth during a year is of a different length.

Where did I state otherwise.

I simply said a light period and a dark period constitutes a day.

Does it take 365.25 light periods regardless of their length and 365.25 dark periods regardless of their length to be a year?

Is this the exact amount of light periods and dark periods that it takes for the Earth to revolve around the sun?

Isn't the duration of a revolution of the Earth at the equator used to measure the duration of the revolution of the Earth?

NoNukes writes:

The truth of the matter is that we don't use dark/light cycles to define the hour or any other unit of time. The units we use are roughly equivalent in duration to units based on an average or mean solar day.

How is the duration of those units determined?

Is it determined by the amount of duration it takes the Earth to revolve one complete revolution on it's axis at the equator?

With that duration being divided up into hours, which is divided up into minutes, which is divided up into seconds, which can be divided up into 1e+12 picoseconds.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 05-15-2012 11:37 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by NoNukes, posted 05-16-2012 6:33 PM ICANT has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11346
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 81 of 110 (662545)
05-16-2012 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by ICANT
05-14-2012 2:03 AM


Re: light and life
Genesis 1:1 and the history of the day the Lord God created the heavens and the earth as given in Genesis 2:4-4:25.

There's 26 verses in Genesis 4. Why don't you explain to us why you have to leave the last one out?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ICANT, posted 05-14-2012 2:03 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2012 11:44 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9541
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 82 of 110 (662558)
05-16-2012 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ICANT
05-16-2012 2:23 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Does it take 365.25 light periods regardless of their length and 365.25 dark periods regardless of their length to be a year?

I'm not going to join you in equivocating. The word day might refer to day night cycles, and it alternatively might refer to a period of time exactly 24 hours in duration. If I were referring to an event that lasted 40.2343 days, I almost certainly am using the latter meaning.

The term day can also refer to the period during a solar day in which the sun is above the horizon.

Is this the exact amount of light periods and dark periods that it takes for the Earth to revolve around the sun?

This can be answered without danger of equivocation. Of course not. 365.25 is just an approximation. A tropical year is about 365.2422 mean solar days.

The bottom line is this. We don't always time things based on solar days and day night periods. Trying to discuss duration as if we did do that is pretty silly.

ABE:

Additionally a year might be a tropical year, and it might also refer to the period of time between Jan 1, 2012 and Jan 1, 2013 in which case that particular year would be 366 days.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2012 2:23 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2012 11:12 AM NoNukes has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 83 of 110 (662588)
05-17-2012 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by NoNukes
05-16-2012 6:33 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Hi No,

NoNukes writes:

I'm not going to join you in equivocating.

Indulge me.

Does it take exactly 23 hours and 56 minutes for the Earth to turn 360 on it axis?

Is this increasing over duration due to the Earth slowing down?

Does it then take 4 minutes for the Earth to finish turning towards the sun due to Earth's travel around the sun?

NoNukes writes:

The term day can also refer to the period during a solar day in which the sun is above the horizon.

Which I refer to as a light period, regardless of the length of duration.

NoNukes writes:

Additionally a year might be a tropical year, and it might also refer to the period of time between Jan 1, 2012 and Jan 1, 2013 in which case that particular year would be 366 days.

Is that leap year of 366 days to make up for the .2422th day per year
that is not accounted for in our calendar?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by NoNukes, posted 05-16-2012 6:33 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Coragyps, posted 05-17-2012 11:27 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 86 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2012 12:31 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 89 by Coragyps, posted 05-18-2012 3:17 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5268
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 84 of 110 (662590)
05-17-2012 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by ICANT
05-17-2012 11:12 AM


Re: The Light was Good
Is that leap year of 366 days to make up for the .2422th day per year that is not accounted for in our calendar?

Uhhh...... ICANT? Leap years are an integral part of our calendar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2012 11:12 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 85 of 110 (662593)
05-17-2012 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by New Cat's Eye
05-16-2012 4:11 PM


Re: light and life
Hi CS,

Catholic Scientist writes:

There's 26 verses in Genesis 4. Why don't you explain to us why you have to leave the last one out?

Actually, unless my memory fails me I leave 2 verses of chapter 4 out as I do not agree with the division into chapters made by Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury.

My reasons for doing so is that there are 8 generations of people mentioned prior to the person known as Seth being born. Yet he was said to be born when his father was 120 years old. You do the math.

The second reason is that the book of the generations recorded in chapter 5 of the man created in Genesis 1:27 does not include any of the people in Genesis chapter 2:4 through 4:24.

The third reason is that the people in Genesis 2:4 through 4:24 have no ages attached to any of them. In fact there is only 2 deaths recorded of any of these people.

As I have stated to you several times if you would like to discuss this further, start a thread and make your arguments why you hold the position you hold.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-16-2012 4:11 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9541
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 86 of 110 (662601)
05-17-2012 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by ICANT
05-17-2012 11:12 AM


Re: The Light was Good
indulge me.

Does it take exactly 23 hours and 56 minutes for the Earth to turn 360 on it axis?

Is this increasing over duration due to the Earth slowing down?

Does it then take 4 minutes for the Earth to finish turning towards the sun due to Earth's travel around the sun?

Does it make any sense to use the word "exactly" about a value that you understand to be constantly changing? Would it make sense to use the term exactly about a value that has already been rounded off. A sidereal day is currently about 4 seconds longer than the "exact" value you cite.

So no it does not take exactly 23:56 minutes for the earth to turn 360 degrees, but let's accept that value as accurate enough. The remaining time needed to finish turning towards the sun varies during the year. Accordingly some solar days are greater in length than 24 hours while others are shorter.

The 23:56 minute value is also increasing as the Earth's rotations slows. You are right about that.

But none of those things discussed above have any influence on the length of an hour, minute or second. Those quantities of duration are defined independently from the the speed of rotation of the earth. And a 24 hour day is a day independent of the actual sum of the dark/light duration measured that day.

I find myself forced to be pedantic here, because I am aware that you have some curious notions regarding time and duration. Your concept of time is incompatible with special and general relativity. Durations between events as measured in different reference frames do differ, despite your contrary beliefs. You are going to have to forgive me for not being willing to take out any time to disabuse you of your notions.

Which I refer to as a light period, regardless of the length of duration.

Maybe you are doing so here, but even the Bible is not so consistent about the term day.

quote:
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So in Gen 1:5, "Day" refers to the light period, while "first day" refers to both morning and evening.

Is that leap year of 366 days to make up for the .2422th day per year

Not alone. 2102 being a leap year is part of a scheme to align the calendar with the orbital period of the earth. Adding a leap year every four years produces a year that averages 365.25 days. Omitting the leap year on century years divisible by 100 produces a year that averages 365.24 days, and making years divisible by 400 despite the previous rule produces a scheme with years that average 365.2425 24 hour days which turns out to be pretty close to what is desired.

But again, that is just calendar stuff. It does not affect the clock. We make changes to the calendar so that the seasons stay on relatively stable dates.

Edited by NoNukes, : Tweak

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2012 11:12 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2012 11:47 AM NoNukes has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 87 of 110 (662720)
05-18-2012 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by NoNukes
05-17-2012 12:31 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Hi No,

NoNukes writes:

But again, that is just calendar stuff. It does not affect the clock. We make changes to the calendar so that the seasons stay on relatively stable dates.

Are you agreeing that everything as far as time is concerned, days, week, months, and years has to be adjusted to reality?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2012 12:31 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2012 1:36 PM ICANT has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9541
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 88 of 110 (662730)
05-18-2012 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by ICANT
05-18-2012 11:47 AM


Re: The Light was Good
Are you agreeing that everything as far as time is concerned, days, week, months, and years has to be adjusted to reality?

I'm a bit confused about what you are asking me. I don't think I agree with your statement. There is more than one definition of year and day. I'm not aware that the definition of week and month are adjusted. Those things are not tied to the solar events in any way. A week is always 7, twenty four hour periods.

As for the day and year...

What is the case is that things like the length of darkness and light periods, the length of a solar day, and the length of a solar year are NOT of fixed duration. Seasons do not recur at completely regular intervals.

On the other hand, clocks when properly maintained, do measure time intervals of exactly fixed duration, and atomic clocks do so incredibly accurately.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2012 11:47 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2012 3:21 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5268
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 89 of 110 (662757)
05-18-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by ICANT
05-17-2012 11:12 AM


Re: The Light was Good
Which I refer to as a light period, regardless of the length of duration.

Or six months at the North and South Poles....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by ICANT, posted 05-17-2012 11:12 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 90 of 110 (662758)
05-18-2012 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by NoNukes
05-18-2012 1:36 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Hi No,

NoNukes writes:

On the other hand, clocks when properly maintained, do measure time intervals of exactly fixed duration, and atomic clocks do so incredibly accurately.

So why do they have to be adjusted?

quote:
Keeping the Earth on time

Around the world, to satisfy the requirements of navigators, communication organizations and scientific groups, about 200 atomic clocks in over 50 national laboratories worldwide will be adjusted at local times corresponding to midnight to local times at Greenwich. On New Year's Eve, the master clock at the United States Naval Observatory will be adjusted at 6:59:60 p.m. EST, or 23:59:60 GMT.

The extra second is needed to keep the world's clocks in time with the rotation of the planet. Time measured by the rotation of the Earth is not uniform when compared to time kept by atomic clocks. Today's atomic clocks have an inaccuracy of less than one second in 200 million years.


http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/blog/tags/atomic-clock

Seems to me like the atomic clock is adjusted to reality. The real time that Earth revolves on it axis. That means time is a concept of man devised to measure duration.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2012 1:36 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2012 4:38 PM ICANT has responded

    
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