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Author Topic:   A test of your common sense
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16056
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 91 of 137 (665975)
06-20-2012 12:34 PM


Oh, and my answer.

I should say that the greatest curvature of the beam under those forces would be either between A and B or (symmetrically) between C and D. I would expect it to give way where it is most bent.

My common sense, garnered over many years of experience, suggests that I don't know and should ask an engineer.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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Coyote
Member (Idle past 59 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(6)
Message 92 of 137 (665993)
06-20-2012 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Dr Adequate
06-20-2012 12:34 PM


Common sense
My common sense, garnered over many years of experience, suggests that I don't know and should ask an engineer.

My common sense tells me I should have ignored this thread.


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fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 2098 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 93 of 137 (666006)
06-20-2012 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-16-2012 5:48 PM


At A, because of the sharp angles???

In plumbing we use a set of equations to determine where we can and can't drill/notch a load carrying member. My limited knowledge doesn't help me here.

My guess is based on knowing that sharp corners are to be avoided. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_781


A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
― Edward R. Murrow

"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them" - Ray Bradbury


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 94 of 137 (666007)
06-20-2012 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by ringo
06-20-2012 12:33 PM


The point is for all intent and purposes it doesn't matter where failure occur in this particular case. I was just demonstrating how something that appears so simple can be so complex without proper training. You can't use common sense to arrive at the answer for something like this. It takes a lot of proper training and experience.

I was really hoping for some more creationist participation in this thread, since a lot of them seem to be all knowing. Instead, I think I just pissed off a bunch of evilutionists LOL.


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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 95 of 137 (666020)
06-21-2012 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Tangle
06-20-2012 11:01 AM


..and again...
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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 96 of 137 (666021)
06-21-2012 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taz
06-20-2012 5:57 PM


So put them out of their misery Taz!
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 97 of 137 (666025)
06-21-2012 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taz
06-20-2012 5:57 PM


Re: Creationist Response
Taz writes:

As I tried to say before, common people often have a mistrust in scientists and engineers (and other professionals in their respective fields) because some things don't fall in line with people's common sense.

Hi Taz. After reading the entire thread and rating most of the responses, there is no common sense answer to un-common complex problems.

A better example of a common sense test would be would chaos emerge into complexity and order, whether given relatively little time or given mllions to billions of years?

Edited by Admin, : Fix closing italic and quote tags.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1739
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 98 of 137 (666033)
06-21-2012 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Buzsaw
06-21-2012 8:28 AM


Re: Creationist Response
[this portion edited in accordance with Admin's request]

would chaos emerge into complexity and order, whether given relatively little time or given mllions to billions of years?

Crystals

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.- Buzsaw Message 177

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor


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Admin
Director
Posts: 12561
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 99 of 137 (666035)
06-21-2012 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by DrJones*
06-21-2012 9:56 AM


Re: Creationist Response
DrJones* writes:

But that hasn't stopped you from spouting off in various science threads, has it?

Please don't help Buz make himself the topic of yet another thread.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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1.61803
Member
Posts: 2794
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 100 of 137 (666037)
06-21-2012 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by fearandloathing
06-20-2012 5:46 PM


Intuitively I would of said the middle. But knowing this is a trick question I then thought point (A) since the surface area is less at the apex.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1140 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


(6)
Message 101 of 137 (666043)
06-21-2012 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Buzsaw
06-21-2012 8:28 AM


Re: Creationist Response
Hi Buz,

I think you've actually stumbled upon perhaps the most important point of the thread.

After reading the entire thread and rating most of the responses, there is no common sense answer to un-common complex problems.

Indeed true, and this is exactly what Taz intended to display.

A better example of a common sense test would be would chaos emerge into complexity and order, whether given relatively little time or given mllions to billions of years?

Yet here you illustrate a far more important fact: people tend to incorrectly classify certain topics as comprehensible through normal, common sense. This is an extension, I believe, of the tendency of human beings to believe themselves to be far more competent in subjects they are ignorant of (specifically, if you know just a little about a topic, you are more likely to believe yourself to be extremely competent in the subject matter, even though an actual test of your knowledge would prove distinctly otherwise).

You believe yourself, through "common sense," to have identified a major contraindication of what you would likely term a "materialistic worldview." You are certain that chaos will never spontaneously form into order, regardless of the amount of time or the circumstances, and you hold this to be proof positive of the falsity of evolution, modern cosmology, etc.

Yet you are neither a physicist nor a chemist, and your education in those areas is negligible. That's not an insult - not everyone is or needs to be an expert in those fields. But you're making claims based on ignorance, and for the rest of us, it shows.

The word "crystals" has been thrown at you repeatedly, every time you make this claim, because crystals (some of them, at least) are the easiest and most obvious example of what you believe to be impossible.

A snowflake in particular is a thing of beauty and impeccable order. Yet it is not guided by any intelligence as it forms, and it requires no input of energy. A snowflake forms spontaneously from a fluid, chaos shifting into order all on its own. Exactly what you say cannot and does not happen, ever, happens billions or trillions of times in a single snowstorm.

Your "common sense" is wrong, Buz. "Common sense" usually is, because the knowledge upon which that sense is based is limited to what we individually know to be true...and that knowledge is often based on inaccuracies or even outright falsehoods. Just as you can reach a false conclusion through solid logic if your premise is incorrect, "common sense" only works when the knowledge it's based on is at all accurate.

In this case, once again you demonstrate that many people will reach utterly inaccurate "common sense" conclusions because their knowledge on a given topic is flawed or utterly absent. This is so ubiquitous that I would suggest that "common sense" is a shortened form of "I'm not at all knowledgeable in this subject, but this is my best guess." And for some strange reason, people place confidence in "common sense" solutions. It would be funny, if it weren't so frequently disastrous.


The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(4)
Message 102 of 137 (666044)
06-21-2012 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Heathen
06-21-2012 2:31 AM


Haha, ok ok.

Usually, the beam will fail in the region adjacent to one of the loads. However, if the beam is elastic enough, it may fail in the middle region. In this particular case, the end condition is set to fail. Left end more than right end.

Edit.

And notice how my member ratings went from 8.0 from the start of this thread to 6.9 at the moment.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 15599
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 103 of 137 (666046)
06-21-2012 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taz
06-20-2012 5:57 PM


Taz writes:

I was just demonstrating how something that appears so simple can be so complex without proper training.


You also called it a, "normal everyday thing that most people deal with." If I'm deciding how many fat ladies my lawn furniture will hold, I'm not going to pay for an engineering feasibility study; I'm going to use my common sense, such as it is.
This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 104 of 137 (666049)
06-21-2012 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ringo
06-21-2012 12:38 PM


Jesus christ, you still fail to see the point. Something like this really does represent normal everyday thing. Suppose you and your wife sits on one of those lawn chairs.

And both of you have been trying to gain the title of the fattest mother fuckers on guiness book of records.

Or how about this. Recently one of my friends made a homemade dolly thing to push his plants around. He does a lot of outdoor and indoor gardening. His dolly thing looks like this.

The area between the larger circle and the smaller circle represents the area of contact between the plant pot and the dolly thing. Where do you suppose the best place for the wheels will be for the dolly?

If it were me, I'd put the wheels toward the outside for stability and support. This guy actually put the wheels very close together toward the center. His reasoning to me was if the dolly thing was going to break it will break in the middle so he better support the middle. Here's the problem. Every time he pushes it around, the plant tends to tip over due to lack of stability.

That's what normal everyday people do. See the similarities between my beam example and the dolly thing?


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ringo
Member
Posts: 15599
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 105 of 137 (666051)
06-21-2012 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Taz
06-21-2012 1:35 PM


Taz writes:

Something like this really does represent normal everyday thing.


Which is why common sense is used and waiting for expertise is impractical. Your example doesnt relate to the EvC debate at all.

Taz writes:

That's what normal everyday people do.


I won't admit to being normal but my answer was right, wasn't it? (To be fair, I have zero knowledge of engineering but I do have some experience in construction.)

ringo - the "i" stands for "infuriating".

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