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Author Topic:   So.. visited a true-scale ark.
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 6 of 22 (668214)
07-18-2012 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by frako
07-17-2012 6:28 PM


According to the story, Noah did have access to iron:
quote:
Gen 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
(This is two chapters before the flood.)

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 Message 3 by frako, posted 07-17-2012 6:28 PM frako has not replied

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 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2012 1:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 8 of 22 (668220)
07-18-2012 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Modulous
07-18-2012 1:35 PM


Modulous writes:
They certainly had access to iron when Genesis was written, but in the time period it is meant to portray?
The story itself is clear that iron was available to Noah. The time discrepancy might pose a problem for dating the flood but not for construction of the ark.

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 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2012 1:35 PM Modulous has replied

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 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2012 4:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 12 of 22 (668227)
07-18-2012 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
07-18-2012 4:21 PM


Modulous writes:
It's easy to see why people writing in a world where iron is basically commonplace might think it existed in the time they envisioned the flood events occurred in.
Sure, that's plausible.
The problem is that we can only date the earliest known use of iron. The Bible itself is not solid evidence of earlier use but you can't use absence of evidence to contadict it either.

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 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2012 4:21 PM Modulous has replied

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 Message 14 by Modulous, posted 07-18-2012 5:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 22 (668235)
07-18-2012 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Modulous
07-18-2012 5:41 PM


Modulous writes:
We can't be certain, but given what we know about iron manufacturing - it leaves behind evidence - the absence of the evidence is indicative of absence of iron manufacturing in that period.
Absence of evidence is the same argument that we use against the flood itself but absence of a worldwide flood is one thing and absence of small localized ironworks is another. People usually take it for granted that Noah started out in the Middle East but there's no particular Biblical reason to make that assumption. Tubalcain and his successors might well have been far from the popular archaeological venues, the "cradles of civilization". The use of iron isn't the least plausible part of the story.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 22 (668373)
07-20-2012 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taz
07-19-2012 6:15 PM


Just so the creationists won't think we're letting you slide, allow me to nitpick:
Taz writes:
Give these 10 people the tools that were available during the bronze age.
It's eight people, not ten. (Mr. and Mrs. Noah, Mr. and Mrs. Ham, Mrs. and Mrs. Shem, Mr. and Mrs. Japheth).
Iron tools were available in the story. (Read the thread).

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 Message 17 by Taz, posted 07-19-2012 6:15 PM Taz has replied

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 Message 19 by Taz, posted 07-20-2012 11:26 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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