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Author Topic:   What type of biological life will more than likely be found on other planets?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 106 of 178 (670948)
08-21-2012 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
08-21-2012 9:24 AM


Re: Accumulated Intelligence
jar writes:

The topic is "What type of biological life will more than likely be found on other planets?"

And the answer most of us are supplying is something along the lines of: Those that possess attributes which enable them to adapt and survive.

And then intelligence is being forward as an attribute which potentially aids adaption and survival.

Iím not sure why you keep insisting that this is off-topic. It seems very much on topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 9:24 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 257 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 107 of 178 (670949)
08-21-2012 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
08-21-2012 9:23 AM


Re: Accumulated Intelligence
Hi, Jar.

jar writes:

Sorry but I still don't see how evolution can accumulate intelligence.

Take primates as an example.

The most "primitive" lineage is the prosimians (lemurs, tarsiers, aye-ayes, etc.). They have modest intelligence, perhaps slightly higher than that of other mammals.

Monkeys evolved from prosimian ancestors, and are generally more intelligent than prosimians.

Apes evolved from monkeys, and are generally more intelligent than monkeys.

Humans evolved from apes, and are generally more intelligent than apes.

Each new lineage has higher intelligence than its ancestors. This resulted in animals that are more and more and more intelligent than previous species.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 9:23 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 9:53 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 257 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 108 of 178 (670950)
08-21-2012 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by jar
08-21-2012 9:34 AM


Re: Rare sapience
jar writes:

Do you agree that in that sample only one line of critters has developed "Human Like Technology"?

I agree.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 9:34 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 9:56 AM Blue Jay has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 109 of 178 (670951)
08-21-2012 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Blue Jay
08-21-2012 9:40 AM


Re: Accumulated Intelligence
I disagree but let's leave it until we go through the step by step effort because again, I think it is more an issue of communication.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 9:40 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 110 of 178 (670952)
08-21-2012 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Blue Jay
08-21-2012 9:30 AM


Re: Accumulated Intelligence
I donít know. But I would speculate that a strict predator prey relationship fosters rather niche physical specialisms whereas intelligence is more the result of having to continually adapt and more likely to come about in something that might be both prey and predator. Something with a more mid-range position in the food-chain that encourages adaptabilityÖ..

But I may well be talking completely out of my arse here.


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 Message 104 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 9:30 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Blue Jay, posted 08-22-2012 11:45 AM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 111 of 178 (670953)
08-21-2012 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Blue Jay
08-21-2012 9:41 AM


Re: Rare sapience
Do you agree that there are other intelligent critters such as the cephalopods, elephants, crows and ravens and several of the other primates?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 9:41 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 9:58 AM jar has responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 257 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 112 of 178 (670954)
08-21-2012 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
08-21-2012 9:56 AM


Re: Rare sapience
jar writes:

Do you agree that there are other intelligent critters such as the cephalopods, elephants, crows and ravens and several of the other primates?

I agree


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 9:56 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 10:15 AM Blue Jay has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 113 of 178 (670955)
08-21-2012 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Blue Jay
08-21-2012 9:58 AM


Re: Rare sapience
Do you agree that humans were able to expand their territory due to a very few technological advances, specifically domestication of fire and clothing and the fact that they were omnivores?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 9:58 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 10:56 AM jar has responded

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 257 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 114 of 178 (670959)
08-21-2012 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by jar
08-21-2012 10:15 AM


Re: Rare sapience
Hi, Jar.

jar writes:

Do you agree that humans were able to expand their territory due to a very few technological advances, specifically domestication of fire and clothing and the fact that they were omnivores?

I disagree with this. We don't really know the dates of these advances with any certainty, so it's impossible to tell from the evidence. However, the expansion of humans across the globe was a very complex process, involving multiple waves and even some back-and-forth. I have a hard time attributing such a complex process to such a simple, specific explanation.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 10:15 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 11:05 AM Blue Jay has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 115 of 178 (670961)
08-21-2012 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Blue Jay
08-21-2012 10:56 AM


Re: Rare sapience
Could hominids have expanded into ice age areas without clothing or fire?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 10:56 AM Blue Jay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-21-2012 11:55 AM jar has responded
 Message 125 by Blue Jay, posted 08-21-2012 1:22 PM jar has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11769
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 116 of 178 (670967)
08-21-2012 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by jar
08-21-2012 11:05 AM


Re: Rare sapience
Could hominids have gotten clothing and fire without intelligence?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 11:05 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 12:08 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11769
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 117 of 178 (670973)
08-21-2012 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
08-14-2012 2:34 PM


Now, we can definitely debate my position, but, what I'd like to talk about would be, what traits, if any, would be realistically favored in a biological system?

I think things that evolved early and then stayed forever are things we can expect to find in other highly evolved species. For example, bilateral symmetry. I think we could expect highly evolved aliens to look similiar to life on our planet in that regard.


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 Message 1 by onifre, posted 08-14-2012 2:34 PM onifre has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Theodoric, posted 08-21-2012 12:27 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29447
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 118 of 178 (670974)
08-21-2012 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by New Cat's Eye
08-21-2012 11:55 AM


Re: Rare sapience
We'll get to that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-21-2012 11:55 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Straggler, posted 08-21-2012 12:27 PM jar has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 119 of 178 (670982)
08-21-2012 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by jar
08-21-2012 12:08 PM


Re: Rare sapience
Why not address it now? Because I think many here think you have the whole intelligence/technology thing completely arse over tit.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 12:08 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by jar, posted 08-21-2012 12:32 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 120 of 178 (670983)
08-21-2012 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by New Cat's Eye
08-21-2012 12:01 PM


bilateral symmetry
For example, bilateral symmetry. I think we could expect highly evolved aliens to look similiar to life on our planet in that regard.

I tend to highly agree with this statement, but as I thought about it more I am not so sure.

My thoughts are that we do not know what we don't know. If the life evolved on a planet similar to ours I think this is very likely.

But there is the rub. We have no idea of what alien life could be like. Is bilateral symmetry a result of unique circumstances in the evolution of life on this planet?

I think there is a very high likelihood that other life out there exhibits bilateral symmetry, but am very open to the idea that we may find something that utterly astounds us and falls completely outside of any of our expectations.

To put it simply, with the knowledge we have I think you are correct. It is what we don't know that is the wild card.

Edited by Theodoric, : subtitle added


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-21-2012 12:01 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
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