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RAZD
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Posts: 18257
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 241 of 285 (735537)
08-17-2014 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by mram10
08-16-2014 4:13 PM


a simple summary of evolution ...
... You will learn a lot here, ...

Particularly if you WANT to learn about things like evolution and how the theory of evolution explains the evidence of life on earth, whether that evidence is the fossil record, the genetic record, the historic record and the world around us.

The process of evolution involves changes in the composition of hereditary traits, and changes to the frequency of their distributions within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities ... and it is a FACT that this has been observed to occur in virtually every living species ...

... while feeling like you are swimming upstream if you debate against evolutionary theory

The process of anagenesis, also known as "phyletic change", is the long term evolution of the entire (breeding) population of a species over multiple generations ... and it is a FACT that this too has been observed to occur, and it is fully explained by the process of evolution.

The process of cladogenesis involves an evolutionary branching event of a parent species into two or more closely related sister species, where the parent population and each daughter branch (and any subsequent smaller branches) form a nested hierarchy called a "Clade"; a process that leads to the development of a greater diversity of species in the world ... and it is a FACT that this has also been observed to occur, and it is fully explained by the process of evolution.

The Theory of Evolution (ToE), stated in simple terms, is that the process of anagenesis (phyletic speciation), and the process of cladogenesis (divergent speciation and the formation of nested hierarchies), are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it, from the fossil record, from the genetic record, from the historic record, and from everyday record of the life we observe in the world all around us.

Dr. Adequate is the resident sarcasm expert. Think of the two older guys in the balcony on the muppet show ...

And many creationists could be compared to the Three Stooges, hitting each other with 2x4,s or poking the others in the eye, rather that provide substantiative evidence for their (often crackpot) concepts, and how they don't work together to arrive at any kind of consensus on those concepts ...

Concepts such as are bandied about by IDologists making silly claims like proteins are both hardware and software ...

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : topic connection


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by mram10, posted 08-16-2014 4:13 PM mram10 has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11250
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 242 of 285 (735545)
08-17-2014 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by herebedragons
08-16-2014 9:31 PM


Re: The hardware is the software
I know what you are saying here, but to be fair, protein synthesis is a highly regulated process and to say "it happens spontaneously" ... just seems wrong to me.

Are you picturing something about the speed of it? Because that's the wrong definition of spontaneous...

quote:
adjective
1.
coming or resulting from a natural impulse or tendency; without effort or premeditation; natural and unconstrained; unplanned:
a spontaneous burst of applause.
2.
(of a person) given to acting upon sudden impulses.
3.
(of natural phenomena) arising from internal forces or causes; independent of external agencies; self-acting.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15790
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 243 of 285 (735551)
08-17-2014 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by New Cat's Eye
08-17-2014 5:14 PM


Re: The hardware is the software
Well "spontaneously" seems wrong from that point of view too. It would suggest that amino acids can just assemble into protein chains by themselves, rather than being fastened together by ribosomes.
This message is a reply to:
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mram10
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 244 of 285 (735555)
08-17-2014 10:32 PM


No arguments here about species evolving. It has limits though. Argue with me all you want on your beliefs, but you need to stop calling it "fact" when you assume we came from elements billions of years ago, with no external help. There is NO evidence to that, simply theory.

So, we agree that things evolve. We disagree on the limits.


Replies to this message:
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Coyote
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Posts: 5663
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 245 of 285 (735556)
08-17-2014 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by mram10
08-17-2014 10:32 PM


Theory?
There is NO evidence to that, simply theory.

Perhaps before we go any farther, you would explain just what you mean by the term, "theory."


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15790
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 246 of 285 (735557)
08-17-2014 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by mram10
08-17-2014 10:32 PM


No arguments here about species evolving. It has limits though. Argue with me all you want on your beliefs, but you need to stop calling it "fact" when you assume we came from elements billions of years ago, with no external help. There is NO evidence to that, simply theory.

This foolishness is not only off the topic of the thread but also does not appear to be a reply to anything anyone has posted. Perhaps if you learned to use the reply button we'd know what you thought you were replying to.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Posts: 18257
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 247 of 285 (735573)
08-18-2014 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by mram10
08-17-2014 10:32 PM


No arguments here about species evolving. ...

Yes, it is hard to argue with facts.

... It has limits though. ...

Where? How are those limits implemented? How does evolution stop happening?

... Argue with me all you want on your beliefs, but you need to stop calling it "fact" when you assume we came from elements billions of years ago, with no external help. There is NO evidence to that, simply theory.

Curiously we know that at one point life did not exist and at a slightly later point simple single cell life existed. We also know that since that first life that there has been an increasing number of forms (we call them species) of life, and I would call those facts that the first life was simple in form.

AND we can equally say:

... you need to stop calling it "fact" when you assume we came from elements billions of years ago, with some undefined kind of external help. There is NO evidence to that, simply belief.

Personally I would take theory over belief, as theory is based on an educated evaluation of evidence while belief is just opinion.

Now belief may be enough to think ID research would be a good idea, but once you start doing that research you need to involve theory, testing and falsification ...

Are you willing to have your beliefs falsified?

So, we agree that things evolve. We disagree on the limits.

There is no evidence of any limits or of any way for limits to arise. Perhaps you can clarify how those limits act? At what level within the body is further change prevented?

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : finished


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by mram10, posted 08-17-2014 10:32 PM mram10 has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 6092
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 248 of 285 (735590)
08-18-2014 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Jackal32
08-14-2014 11:43 AM


Re: The hardware is the software
I suggest that the protein’s hardware (structure) determines its software (role in the cell) – and that software could not have originated spontaneously, it had to be programmed into the hardware. In effect, the hardware is the software.

What are your aims and hypotheses? What experiments would you run?


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Taq
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Posts: 6092
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 249 of 285 (735591)
08-18-2014 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by mram10
08-17-2014 10:32 PM


No arguments here about species evolving. It has limits though.

What experiments would you do to test what these limits are?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by mram10, posted 08-17-2014 10:32 PM mram10 has not yet responded

  
mram10
Member (Idle past 886 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 250 of 285 (735758)
08-23-2014 6:29 PM


How do you know that life started as simple organisms?? How "simple" is the most simple organism? With the increase in knowledge and technology, we know that no life is simple.

It is funny that you call your stance a "theory" and my stance a "belief". You have no proof, but you have a very interesting story that tries to dispense with a higher power. Look under a microscope once in a while and study the complexity of the most "simple" forms of life without bias

Edited by mram10, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15790
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 251 of 285 (735761)
08-23-2014 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by mram10
08-23-2014 6:29 PM


You should still learn to use the reply button. You'll find it at the bottom right of the message you want to reply to. That way, people will know what and whom you're replying to.

Next week maybe I'll teach you some rocket science.


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28677
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 252 of 285 (735763)
08-23-2014 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by mram10
08-23-2014 6:29 PM


more signs of willful ignorance
You have no proof, but you have a very interesting story that tries to dispense with a higher power.

You continue to post such absurdities even after you have been shown that is totally false.

Why do you continue to post falsehoods?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 350 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 253 of 285 (735765)
08-23-2014 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by jar
08-23-2014 8:04 PM


Re: more signs of willful ignorance
jar writes:

Why do you continue to post falsehoods?

Carnak the Magnificent says:

Military background. Works in sales.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
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Posts: 9447
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 254 of 285 (735774)
08-24-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by mram10
08-23-2014 6:29 PM


Yawn...
mron10 writes:

How "simple" is the most simple organism? With the increase in knowledge and technology, we know that no life is simple.

Mram graces us with yet another weekend PRATT fest. Here we see Claim CB010.1 followed by CA202.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 12920
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 255 of 285 (735776)
08-24-2014 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by mram10
08-23-2014 6:29 PM


mram10 writes:

How "simple" is the most simple organism?


What's the difference between living and non-living?
This message is a reply to:
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