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Author Topic:   States petition for secession
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 151 of 384 (688973)
01-26-2013 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
01-26-2013 11:34 PM


Re: The Puritan state
You've bought the Catholic propaganda about Northern Ireland. It's always the Catholics that instigate the violence. Sure the Protestants may fight back. The Protestants have no desire to rule the world but the Vatican does.
The vatican is getting pretty toothless now-a-days. Are you really fighting that battle that has been over for centuries? (See The Enlightenment.)
What do you mean by "minority rights?"
What you and your small band of nutcases enjoy in the US that you wouldn't enjoy in much of the rest of the world, particularly the Middle East.
And what I believe you would deny to others the minute you thought you could get away with it.
And by the way there is no such thing as a Protstant theocracy in the world right now.
Good! That's a good start! Now if we could get rid of all the other theocracies I'd be much happier.
The minute someone starts telling me I have to live according to their beliefs I start getting hives, and am apt to become very surly.
Edited by Coyote, : grammar again

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 11:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 12:08 AM Coyote has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 152 of 384 (688977)
01-27-2013 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Coyote
01-26-2013 11:49 PM


Re: The Puritan state
I ask again: What do you mean by "minority rights?" It's STUPID to give any kind of POWER to a competing ideology that wants the founding ideology dead.
The sad thing is that Protestants were once the majority in the US, the backbone of the nation. We no longer even have "minority" rights, our free speech that we were supposed to have been guaranteed is being steadily eroded, the right to practice our religion has practically been defined out of existence and so on. This is why I am playing with the possibilities of starting a new state where its Christian identity is specifically protected.
You are really really deluded about the Vatican. But so is just about everybody these days. I've only been learning what a real threat they are to world peace in the last few months myself. Maybe as long as a year, not sure.
You are not going to live in my Puritan state so what are you complaining about? Why not let Christians have a state to ourselves?
Here's a good talk about the situation in Ireland by the way, not just anti-Catholic, pretty balanced I'd say. Skip the first 14 minutes to get to the subject: Layman's History of the Conflict in Ireland
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Coyote, posted 01-26-2013 11:49 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Coyote, posted 01-27-2013 12:23 AM Faith has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 153 of 384 (688978)
01-27-2013 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
01-27-2013 12:08 AM


Re: The Puritan state
Why not let Christians have a state to ourselves?
Find a deserted island or desert somewhere and have at it.
But the days when you can force your beliefs on others have long since passed.
And that goes for all the rest of the theocrats as well.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 12:08 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 12:49 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 154 of 384 (688979)
01-27-2013 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Coyote
01-27-2013 12:23 AM


Re: The Puritan state
How insanely bizarre.
It's you and your faction who are forcing your views on us.
And if we had our own state then you'd be free of us, but perversely you won't even consider it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Coyote, posted 01-27-2013 12:23 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(3)
Message 155 of 384 (688980)
01-27-2013 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
01-26-2013 6:26 PM


Re: The Puritan state
The US was never a theocracy, Rahvin, but it WAS Christian in spirit. Nations of Europe also regarded themselves as Christian after the Reformation without being theocracies. You took my comment out of context of course, that's how all you guys operate here. What I want NOW though IS a theocracy, I want a state like the original Puritan and Pilgrim colonies.
Well then, look who's the treasonous little traitor who rejects the Constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion upon which the country was founded? Perhaps the real reason for the Second Amendment is to protect against people like you.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 6:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 1:23 AM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 1:43 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 384 (688981)
01-27-2013 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Rahvin
01-27-2013 1:18 AM


Re: The Puritan state
Another twisted pack of lies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2013 1:18 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 157 of 384 (688982)
01-27-2013 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Faith
01-26-2013 11:26 PM


Re: The Puritan state
You of course equate the theocracy I have in mind with Catholic theocracy which DOES enforce its views and burn people at the stake for refusing them.
The Inquisition is long over. Catholics do not burn (present tense) anyone and have not for centuries.
Who tortured, excommunicated, and executed people for witchcraft in Salem starting in about 1692? Wasn't it Calvinists? Why pretend that only Catholics have a history of using brutal force? Is the fact that the witches were hanged or buried alive under stones rather than burned any reason to feel superior to Catholics?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 11:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 1:38 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 384 (688983)
01-27-2013 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by NoNukes
01-27-2013 1:30 AM


Re: The Puritan state
19 supposed witches were killed in Salem in a hysterical flap that was stopped by the clergy.
The Roman Church PAPACY ITSELF OFFICIALLY murdered thousands of witches during the six centuries of the Inquisition along with 50 million Christians and almost 17 million Jews, Muslims and sundry others including the witches, but you're all so propagandized into believing it's all the same, such distinctions mean nothing to you. In fact ideologically you HAVE to believe it, you simply cannot process the actual facts. It would shatter your prejudices to have to recognize such facts.
OH AND THE INQUISITION IS NOT OVER. The Rwanda genocide was basically the Inquisitiobn. I posted a video about that. And in Catholic countries ongoing all the time Catholis are being stirred up to attack Protestants Inquisition style. I blogged on a prayer request about such an event going on in Mexico recently, Catholics attacking the Protestant Mayans. And the fact that it is the IRA in Ireland that instigates all the killing there, and I just posted a link to a talk on that too, is part of the same picture.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2013 1:30 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2013 2:45 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 159 of 384 (688984)
01-27-2013 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Rahvin
01-27-2013 1:18 AM


Re: The Puritan state
People here have actually proposed the equivalent of ignoring the Constitution as outdated, just shrugging it off as a piece of trash basically, without caring whether it is modified according to its own rules or not.
And why, just because you hate the second amendment, that's the reason at the moment, and your opinion is the only one that matters, it's really no concern to you that half the nation supports it.
Yet you call me a traitor although I defend the Constitution as the law of the land. Yes I would love the opportunity to see it rewritten or amended to make it the Christian document it should have been based on the majority opinion of Americans at that time but I nevertheless treat it as law not to be ignored.
What a bunch of lying propaganda you've swallowed and promote.
I don't recall YOU objecting to those traitorous anti-Constitutional posts.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Rahvin, posted 01-27-2013 1:18 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2013 2:53 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 160 of 384 (688985)
01-27-2013 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
01-27-2013 1:38 AM


Re: The Puritan state
but you're all so propagandized into believing it's all the same
It's all despicable. But you have tried to claim that when people accuse Protestants of despicable deeds, that they must be confusing them with Catholics. Well that's nonsense. We can tar those Puritans you want to emulate with their own misdeeds.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 1:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 2:50 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 161 of 384 (688986)
01-27-2013 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by NoNukes
01-27-2013 2:45 AM


Re: The Puritan state
The fact is you can't, not in any sense or to any degree or caused by any intent that could possibly compare. Again, it's just that you feel you MUST believe that it's all equal. It isn't. But there is plenty of propaganda out there to help you think so. And it doesn't even occur to you that's what it is.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2013 2:45 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 162 of 384 (688987)
01-27-2013 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Faith
01-27-2013 1:43 AM


Re: The Puritan state
Yet you call me a traitor although I defend the Constitution as the law of the land. Yes I would love the opportunity to see it rewritten or amended to make it the Christian document it should have been based on the majority opinion of Americans at that time but I nevertheless treat it as law not to be ignored.
Did one of us come to your house and take your guns?
Look, you've already told us that you don't want a republican form of government and that it would be STUPID to grant minorities power in the goofy gubmint you want to implement. You intend to run roughshod all over the 1st and 8th amendments.
Now you claim to be some kind of defender of the constitution you tell us that you cannot stand? Please...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 1:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 01-27-2013 2:55 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 163 of 384 (688988)
01-27-2013 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by NoNukes
01-27-2013 2:53 AM


Re: The Puritan state
Stop lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2013 2:53 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 164 of 384 (688992)
01-27-2013 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Faith
01-26-2013 6:35 PM


Re: The Puritan state
quote:
No, it's the spirit of the thing that matters not how it is done, which could be done many ways according to various cultures without in any way "trumping" the Bible which is universal so that such customs are utterly irrelevant to its spirit, and the spirit is the main thing, and if community involvement is the point that can be adapted to and I could NOT care less about any of this.
If you really cared about the spirit of the text then you would not answer in this way. If the Bible prescribes a particular means of execution for some offence, then you should not assume that there is no reason for that prescription and that any means would do. Following the spirit of the text would require you to understand the reasons for that prescription and find an alternate means of execution that also satisfies them. But obviously, in your own words, you don't care about that.
So really you just want a far-right tyranny that will persecute everyone you hate. The Bible us just window dressing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 6:35 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(4)
Message 165 of 384 (689003)
01-27-2013 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
01-26-2013 6:23 PM


Re: Secession
I don't want the Constitution we have
This is actually what most of the people claiming to want to protect the Constitution actually seem to believe.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 01-26-2013 6:23 PM Faith has not replied

  
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