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Author Topic:   The Book Of Acts
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 47 (681670)
11-27-2012 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
11-27-2012 11:30 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
I can see the logic of these two reasons, but the one I cant see being valid is rejecting the idea of God simply because of wishing to preserve the right of one to think freely without limits or constraint on behavior that such a Spirit may impose on a human conscience.
But is that ever really a reason except in the mind of Christians that want to assign such nonsense to those who believe differently? Isn't that just another example of Christian hypocrisy?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:46 AM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 17 of 47 (681671)
11-27-2012 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
11-27-2012 11:30 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
but the one I cant see being valid is rejecting the idea of God simply because of wishing to preserve the right of one to think freely without limits or constraint on behavior that such a Spirit may impose on a human conscience.
You do realize that is a strawman caricature of atheists you religious types have created, right? The one you "cant see being valid" is one that you have made up and one that you assume is a reason atheists choose not to believe.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 47 (681675)
11-27-2012 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
11-27-2012 11:36 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
jar writes:
But is that ever really a reason except in the mind of Christians that want to assign such nonsense to those who believe differently?
So are you saying that God has no preferred way that She wants us to think or act? I suppose that I can see your point as it ties in with your belief that we are responsible (eternally, perhaps) for how we choose to think and/or behave.
I can also agree with you that he evidence of historical christian behavior in regards to "teaching" the rest of the world was and is, essentially "My way(His Way) or the Highway..."
Acts teaches that believers are by and large in agreement, however.
Acts2:44 writes:
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
Granted you may now propose this as evidence that Acts was written as a revisionist philosophy(even suggesting a seeming cult-like attitude amongst Christians) over the older Jewish teachings. I would only disagree because I trust (and want to trust) the ability of the Holy Spirit to unify rather than divide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 47 (681676)
11-27-2012 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by hooah212002
11-27-2012 11:40 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
Why cant I be hypothetical without forever constructing strawmen?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by hooah212002, posted 11-27-2012 11:40 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 39 by hooah212002, posted 11-27-2012 2:35 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 47 (681680)
11-27-2012 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
11-27-2012 11:46 AM


Communism and Socialism
Actually, the quote you just posted says that they lived in a Communist and Socialist commune.
Acts 2:44 writes:
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
It says nothing about any difference between them and the other Jewish population. There is no mention in your quote about the Holy Spirit.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:46 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:58 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 47 (681683)
11-27-2012 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
11-27-2012 11:53 AM


Re: Communism and Socialism
It seems to suggest that they were of one mind and heart.
They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
In contrast, any random sample of populations under communist/socialist rule...never-mind any other human form of government, suggests no such cohesiveness.
It seems as if Peter and John were actively attempting to encourage more "outsiders" to become of this same one mind and heart.
Is there any reason to believe that their motive was anything other than spiritual?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 11:53 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:02 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 47 (681684)
11-27-2012 12:02 PM


The Leaders disagreed with Peter and John
It seems that the leaders of that time disagreed with this effort at bringing the people all under one mind and heart.
16 What are we going to do with these men? they asked. Everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign, and we cannot deny it. 17 But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in this name.
Would you say the leaders were more sane than Peter and John?

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 47 (681685)
11-27-2012 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
11-27-2012 11:58 AM


Re: Communism and Socialism
Sure. The rest of the passage you quoted. A great reason to join a community is security, food, shelter, clothing, mutual support.
Acts 2:44 writes:
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 12:05 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 47 (681686)
11-27-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
11-27-2012 12:02 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
In my opinion, Peter and John wanted the people to not simply be under one form of government, but of one mind and heart...through this belief and by way of this Holy Spirit. Clearly, the Jewish leaders disagreed with this.
18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John replied, Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! 20 As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.
Again, we may ask the motive of Peter and John.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:02 PM jar has replied

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 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:16 PM Phat has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2971 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 25 of 47 (681688)
11-27-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
11-27-2012 11:30 AM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
I can see the logic of these two reasons, but the one I cant see being valid is rejecting the idea of God simply because of wishing to preserve the right of one to think freely without limits or constraint on behavior that such a Spirit may impose on a human conscience.
I think this only makes sense to believers. Think about what you're saying: rejecting god to preserve the right to think freely without limit means you accept god as an authority. They reject god because they don't want to be limited, but they believe a god exists. This can ONLY be something a believer does.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 11:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 12:13 PM onifre has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 47 (681689)
11-27-2012 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by onifre
11-27-2012 12:11 PM


Re: Jewish Mythology and Christian Belief
Point noted. You are probably right....an unbeliever wouldn't even feel the conviction....maybe.
I guess I assumed from the standpoint of the Bible being correct, as per Romans 18.
Edited by Phat, : added point

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by onifre, posted 11-27-2012 12:11 PM onifre has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 47 (681690)
11-27-2012 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
11-27-2012 12:05 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
But that is NOT the passage you quoted or that I was responding to. You still have not addressed that even though it was the passage YOU selected to support your assertion.
Acts 2:44 writes:
All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 12:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 12:17 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 47 (681691)
11-27-2012 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
11-27-2012 12:16 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
Acts 2:44 does not suggest normal behavior among any large group of people, in my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:19 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 47 (681693)
11-27-2012 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
11-27-2012 12:17 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
Which still does not address the question and is simply an unsupported assertion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 12:17 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 11-27-2012 12:24 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 47 (681696)
11-27-2012 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
11-27-2012 12:19 PM


Re: Communism and Socialism
jar writes:
It says nothing about any difference between them and the other Jewish population. There is no mention in your quote about the Holy Spirit.
Granted. The rest of the book of Acts does suggest the holy Spirit, however. Whats your point?
jar writes:
A great reason to join a community is security, food, shelter, clothing, mutual support.
OK. Again, any normal community...at least in a secular setting, has no unification of mind and heart to the extent that this passage suggests. Am I still avoiding your point(question), and if so, what is it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 12:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 11-27-2012 1:00 PM Phat has replied

  
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