Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries

Just out of curiosity, is there any reason why your sources are to be trusted?Jack Chick was notorious for his attacks on Catholicism through his comic books and Bible tracts. I see no evidence that he knew anything the rest of us didn't know, however.Edited by Phat, : added jack chick tidbit

I think that if one were to honestly examine both institutions, one would find things wrong and/or scandalous about both....also things commendable...the major point being that Protestantism would have a few different types of errors than Catholicism

This question used to bother me until I realized that its ok to not know, scientifically speaking. That I believe is good enough for me.

You always quote Matthew 25, but it too is not the only scripture in the Bible...you just like it because it supports your particular belief. How to Narcigete Any Bible StoryEdited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : title

I suppose that Works vs Grace is the issue being discussed. Personally I believe that we are saved by Grace, but I agree with Catholic Scientist that our works are a sign of our salvation....not a prerequisite to it. The Judge will make that final decision and distinction, though.

Both Catholics and Protestants...as individuals...have exhibited measures of both...the best of us model the right Spirit...you know it when you see it. Even then, we embrace false spirits at times.As institutions, however, the Roman Catholics got sidetracked early in their history, asn the Protestants started out their denominations "on fire" and with much of the right Spirit guiding them. John Wesley comes to mind.Later, as institutions, the denominations of Protestantism also got sidetracked. Is there any righteous among us? Institutionally, no. Individually, yes. Only the Judge knows for sure.

I would have to disagree that we can never be experts such as these men supposedly were. They possess nothing in the way of intelligence, access to translations, or Holy Spirit that you or I do not also have. This is what irks many about Protestants...that everyone with a Bible claimed to be of equal authority....but its basically true if one is led by the Spirit.

Both Protestantism and Roman Catholicism have many clubs.I suppose that technically everyone in the world could be a church of one, hypothetically. Clubs form when two or more agree on something.

But what about Gods grace? You seem to think that God insists that we work hard enough to impress Him. Although I will admit that I don't actually know WHAT God thinks! Wouldn't it be great though if God loved us so much that we could be failures and still live under His roof?

Some of us believe very strongly that we are in communion with the Creator of all seen and unseen through communion with His Spirit. Have you never felt this way?

I closed the thread about Francis as it was going off topic, so I wanted to give you an opportunity to express yourself here.

TOPIC SYNOPSIS I could summarize my basic belief this way:Jesus always existed and will always exist. He is Gods human character---the way that God chose to commune and relate with humans. My entire conceptualization of God is seen through this lens of belief. jar and I often argued whether GOD (Creator of all seen and unseen) cared more for humans than He did for pond scum, life on other planets, or dolphins. My response was that through Jesus Christ, humans were able to communicate with GOD> (Yes, I am a Trinitarian) The first group of people ---the upper room bunch in the Book Of Acts---knew Jesus as a human and also knew GOD through Jesus and later through the Holy Spirit. It is my understanding that after the events recorded in Acts and during the time that the letters of Paul were written (After Saul got knocked off his high horse and realized that Jesus was God) the early church was slowly being established. Initially, the early church leadership and hierarchy focused on five cities. Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria. see Wiki article on PentarchyThe split in 1066 drove four of the cities towards Eastern Orthodoxy and Rome became the political/Catholic seat of the church that dominated Europe. At this point, the question arises of the church as a political/business entity versus the church as the called out ecclesia---those who are called out of this world into a spiritual communion with God. Some critics argue that we all are "saved" and/or aware of basic common sense, history, and philosophical musings over God....while others insist that only some people have the awareness of God (Trinitarian version) through a personal daily relationship with Jesus Christ through the living and ever present Holy Spirit. I tend towards the latter belief, though I see valid arguments concerning the former. I suppose that I could be guilty of a similar charge.A: Those who knew Jesus had the Holy Spirit. They were all killed for their beliefs back in those days.

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B. Nefarious church leaders (all Catholics initially) became more interested in political power, politics and living a heathen life than they did fasting, praying, and loving thy neighbor (especially the heathens of color) and only a remnant had the communion with God. here is where I see us today......C. There is still a remnant (10% perhaps) of individuals who love God with all of their heart---and who although human and fallible, are carried by Gods Grace as they continue to interact with the world and in their attempts to spread the good news about salvation through Christ alone. Some of them are formal Pastors and teachers within the church, though most are people who simply live their calling out on a daily basis while they have secular jobs and tasks.

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I will admit that my position precludes the necessity of knowing God and loving God and that my belief assumes Christian Trinitarianism to be the way to go. Im likely partially wrong on this belief, but in any event I believe that God draws us to Himself so that I don't worry about the details of historical accuracy. I do believe that we humans need communion and that there is but one God. as the cliche goes, its not about religion---its about a personal relationship.

Done what? Doing religion correctly,if such a thing could even be claimed, is much more than political and societal organizational skills. There were initially five cities where Christianity was based and 4 of them split while Rome declared itself first among equals. So much for religion and politics!Christianity is---first and foremost--a personal relationship with the Creator of all seen and unseen which is made possible through the humanity of Jesus Christ Who lives today. All other such humanistic and political fluff is exactly that--fluff!Admittedly the Protestants are much less organized and much more divisive---but this does not detract from them having arguably more members who actually are in communion with God and not merely using Him for social and financial gain. Being a Christian is not about being a freethinker. The very definition of a relationship with the living God requires one to essentially surrender the freewill free thinking aspect of thought---which is probably why you and many of the intellectuals here at EvC are not Christians. Few people can logically accept a living God and a communion in the heart and mind both.Many would argue that church is all about humanism anyway, so I suppose my point is moot.