Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries

Salvation comes from the grace of God. No, there's no such thing as "enough", you don't earn salvation by having a belief.

Its an easy sell: "You mean, I don't have to actually do anything? All I have to do is say I believe something and viola, I'm saved?.. well dang, count me in."

Her. Faith is a woman. For clarity, what is meant by "needing" to do works is in a 'by their fruits we shall know them' sort of way as opposed to a 'earning heaven through action' sort of way.Jesus said that we love God by doing things for people in need. You can't say that you "believe in Jesus" and then not help the needy, that would be contradicting yourself. So in that sense, you need to do works because that's a direct result of having the belief. You can't just say you believe it.It just gets confusing when people see "needing to do works" and think that you can some how barter your way into heaving by paying God with actions here - that's not how its supposed to work.

If you say that you have faith, but no works result from it, then you don't really have faith. The works don't buy your way to salvation, its just that without them we know you don't have faith. It doesn't stop at just faith, according to Jesus.

Right, so you can't just say that you have faith, there's got to be works too. Catholics believe salvation comes from the grace of God.They don't rest their salvation ON their works. They realize that people who don't do works don't actually have faith.We have a sermon directly from Jesus, the Sermon on the Mount. He says that people will say their christians, but if they're not doing anything about it then they're really not.

If you look at the actual words in the Hail Mary:

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Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with you.
Blessed are you among women,
and blessed is the fruit of your womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

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You can see that it is simply praising her and asking her to pray for us. It isn't "worshiping" Mary as the Protestants say.

Show me your data. Please provide the scripture support for all this, Ms. Sola Scriptura.

Can you quote the dogma that leads you to believe this? But you've already admitted that you gotta have the works in order to show your faith. You can't just have faith. Too, faith alone goes directly against what the Bible quotes Jesus as teaching us.You guys worship the book more than you listen to Jesus. You're more Biblicans than Christians. Its not really that different. From The Catholic Encyclopedia:

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The Council of Trent describes the process of salvation from sin in the case of an adult with great minuteness (Sess. VI, v-vi).

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It begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.

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Thus assisted the sinner is disposed for salvation from sin; he believes in the revelation and promises of God, he fears God's justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him for Christ's sake, begins to love God as the source of all justice, hates and detests his sins.

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This disposition is followed by justification itself, which consists not in the mere remission of sins, but in the sanctification and renewal of the inner man by the voluntary reception of God's grace and gifts, whence a man becomes just instead of unjust, a friend instead of a foe and so an heir according to hope of eternal life. This change happens either by reason of a perfect act of charity elicited by a well disposed sinner or by virtue of the Sacrament either of Baptism or of Penance according to the condition of the respective subject laden with sin. The Council further indicates the causes of this change. By the merit of the Most Holy Passion through the Holy Spirit, the charity of God is shed abroad in the hearts of those who are justified.

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Emphasis addedThe works come "by the voluntary reception of God's grace and gifts". wow, how desperate are you? Have you no shame? I reject it too, but then, I'm going by what Jesus said in the Bible.

Use smileys. That didn't stop you from paraphrasing it earlier... Can you support that with scripture?And Jesus taught us differently than that. So is it faith alone or not? Where is the scripture support for this? And what do you mean "dealt with". Christians still have the propensity to sin. Where is the scripture support for this?You seem to be adding a whole lot to the Bible for being "scripture only".

It doesn't say all that, you added a bunch. It doesn't mention baptism or church or tithes or sacraments. It just says that we are saved by grace through faith. Faith plus works salvation is not contradicted with that quote, it too says we're saved by grace through faith, it just goes on to say that you have to do works to justify your faith. And the way you show that you've accepted the gift is through the works you do as a result of it. If you're not doing the works, then you didn't accept the gift. Ergo, we do need to have works too. Sure, but not just that. Well as jar points out, Jesus told us to go and do works. And that's actually Jesus saying that rather than assuming that Jesus was talking through John when John said something. No, they're not enough. You're adding more to them than what they say. Plus, the Bible has other parts that go directly against the faith alone position:

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James 2:17

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KJV
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

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NIV
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

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Right, therefore, works are necessary.

The Bible simply contradicts itself on this matter. Some parts say you just need faith and some parts say that you have to do works.

You just made that up and provided no reasons why I should believe you.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

What? That don't make no sense.If you say something that is correct, then I won't reject it. If I'm not sure if its correct or not, but you provide good reasons to accept that it is, then I won't reject it. I'm not seeing the point.

The trick is to not dig your heals in at all; honestly questions things with open minded skepticism.But you won't... In Message 43 you wrote:

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I do NOT agree that even one thing is Genesis differs with our acaemic and scientific knowledge.

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So there you go; heels firmly dug in. You'll never change that position, will you?That pretty much eliminates any point to us debating you.