Summations Only

MrHambre asks: I prefer to think of it as "enabling" the Saudis to pull it off at some date, but not knowing when.It is curious that once all airplanes were grounded, the only flight allowed was to carry the Saudis out of the USA back to their country.And for Condoleeza Rice to claim that no one could have imagined it while the Pentagon itself was rehearsing such a scenario - that took a lot of cheek.

I admit that I don't consider trutherism to be anything more than an online shell game: the truther baits his unwary opponent into jumping through hoops for him and providing context for weird factoids, then mocks the opponent's credulity and moves onto the next factoid.Anyone who thinks that our white overlords in the government-military-industrial complex control every facet of human endeavor should have been disabused of that notion emphatically on the morning of 9/11. It takes a superhuman act of denial to believe that our government, military, and intelligence agencies only conspired to make it look like they were completely helpless and ineffective during the terrorist attack (as well as in the years preceding it), and no one had qualms whatsoever about sticking to that story.Let's believe anything!

What tyranny areyou refering to?

Christians baking cakes.

I was asleep and heard a noise. I assumed it was a home invader so I fired my gun and killed my teenage brother. FL, 6/5My brother damaged a tree in my yard, so I shot at him. MN, 6/6Some passengers got out of my Uber car and threw rocks at it, so I shot at them. IL, 6/6A woman asked me for advice about getting a gun and a concealed carry permit. I took out my handgun to show it to her and accidentally shot her in the leg. OH, 6/6My wife was mocking me, so I shot my entire family. MT, 6/7I wondered what it felt like to get shot in the foot, so I tried it. CO, 6/10I got into an argument with someone outside the church where I am the pastor. I pulled out my gun and shot at the unarmed man and missed. The bullet hit and killed my own teenage son. CA, (6/12)I was losing a custody battle due to my prior arrest record, so I took out my frustration by firing 40 rounds at the Dallas Police headquarters. TX, 6/13A woman reported me for sexual harassment, so I shot her to death in the mall where we both worked. IA, 6/13I was asked to leave a shooting/camping club, which made me angry, so I came back with two guns and shot two people dead. OH, 6/14I was "tired of going to court" to fight my ex-wife for custody, so I shot her to death in front of our 7-year-old daughter. NJ, 6/16I hate black people, so I went to a church and shot nine of them dead. SC, 6/17A man was arguing with me about the Golden State Warriors, so I shot him. (Yes, I was sober.) CA, 6/17My neighbor was arguing with me about some personal items, so I shot him. TX, 6/18A dog scared me, so I shot at it, missed, and my bullet hit a four-year-old child. OH, 6/19My boyfriend let me play with his gun. It was fun until I unintentionally shot him in the face. LA, 6/18My sister was arguing with me about clothes, so I shot her. MI, 6/19I was showing my wife how to use a gun when I shot myself in the hand. IN, 6/20A man was walking his dog and it tried to poop in my son’s yard, so I shot him. FL, 6/21My dog got into a fight with another dog, and people in the neighborhood tried to break it up. I pulled out my gun and started shooting people, including a woman and a two-year-old child. MI, 6/21I thought I heard an intruder, so I shot my girlfriend. AR, 6/22My friend’s car broke down so he called me for help. I met him on the side of the highway and we got into an argument, so I shot him. TX, 6/23My employee was unhappy with what I was paying him, so I shot him. MO, 6/26---And not one instance of anyone overthrowing a tyranny. Damn.(N.B: I didn't make the list, someone posted it on facebook. I'm guessing the original source would be the fb page of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.)Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

You got all the pretty stories for your list. Now add in Chicago with 27 of 30 days of fatal shootings just in June. "... the right of those people who are really stupid, or plenty pissed off, or both, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Are you kiddin' me Doc? A man fires 40 rounds at police headquarters? A couple more men react to custody battles going badly, and yet another man tries to start a race war by killing 9 black people?Granted, none of this bloodshed actually defeated any tyrants, but how about some credit for tilting at the windmills here?

Well then, until you can accurately and reliably tell the difference between "good" and "bad" guys before they go postal, you will continue to have massacres.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.Edited by Heathen, : No reason given.

Today's NYT reports the sad case of a young man shot in the back and paralyzed as he drove away from an apartment complex security guard: ‘Illegal Activity’ Fine Print Leaves Some Insured, but Uncovered. He later died because he was denied medical insurance coverage, which is extremely sad and disturbing in itself, but the insurance coverage issues are not relevant to this thread.The backstory of the article is what's relevant. Oklahoma has a "stand your ground" law, and because the security guard was (he claimed) struck by the car as it backed out of the parking space, it was ruled that he was justified in firing into the car because he thought his life was in danger, even though the car was by then speeding away. Compounding the puzzlement of this ruling, the security guard had marijuana on his person and in his system.What was the young man's crime? He wasn't charged with one. Sympathy over the tragedy would likely have prevented charges being brought even had the young man been guilty of a crime such as theft or using drugs, but it seems that at most he ignored a security guard's instructions (not a crime) and left the scene of an accident (allegedly).--Percy

I find the insurance issues to be more interesting, but as you say they are not the topic.With regard to standing your ground, let's recall that such laws are not the only way that a district attorney might decide that a shooting is justified. It is also possible to use pure self defense rules. I would think that the Oklahoma decision not to prosecute would be unsurprising in many jurisdictions.There was an earlier case in Oklahoma involving a drug store robbery. The druggist on duty shot one (unarmed) robber in the head, chased another robber down the street firing at him.The druggist returned to the store, saw that the first perp was still breathing. So he got a second gun out of a drawer and plugged the perp five more times killing him. The killing was caught on security video and the druggist was eventually convicted of first degree murder. But some of the legislators who had enacted the stand your ground law insisted that the law was intended to protect the druggist. Oklahoma City pharmacist Jerome Ersland found guilty of murder in killing of suspect - CBS NewsThis is a reasonably fair summary from a person supportive of the shooter.American Handgunner Page not found - American Handgunner

USA Today has released a brief report on mass killings in America: Behind the Bloodshed: The Untold Story of American's Mass KillingsThey followed the FBI definition of a mass killing as four victims or more. Mass killings occur about every two weeks.Check out the diagram titled "A Timeline of U.S. Mass Killings" around page 4 or so. The size of the red dot is proportional to the number of victims. Hover over the dot for specifics.Family members are most often the victims.Guns are by far the most common weapon, and most are handguns.--Percy

I just happened to turn on BBC World News for a couple minutes before dinner and heard this gem about the Louisiana theater shooting: Europe just doesn't have a mass volume of mass shootings.--Percy

Yes, but Europe is ruled by King George III. Mass shootings are the price we pay for liberty.

Timothy Egan writes in his editorial Guns and the Two Americas in today's NYT:

quote:

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Rick Perry called gun-free zones a bad idea.

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In his view, echoing that of the fanatics who own the Republican Party by intimidation, everyone should be armed, everywhere. Once a shooting starts, the bad guy with the gun will be killed by the good guy with the gun, somehow able to get a draw on the shooter in a darkened theater, or behind a pew in church.

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This scenario almost never happens. The logic is nonsense, the odds of a perfectly timed counter-killer getting the drop on the evil killer unlikely. And even when such a situation does happen, as in the Tucson shooting of 2011, the armed citizen who jumps into the melee can pose a mortal threat to others. In Tucson, an innocent person came within seconds of getting shot by an armed bystander who wasn’t sure whom to shoot.
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If the mall took up Rick Perry’s suggestion, shoppers could roam among the chain stores packing heat, ready for a shootout.
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As a way to make everyday life seem less frightening, the new reality is absurd. But that’s the cost, apparently, of an extreme interpretation of a constitutional amendment designed to fend off British tyranny, a freedom that has become a tyranny in itself.

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--Percy