Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,788 Year: 4,045/9,624 Month: 916/974 Week: 243/286 Day: 4/46 Hour: 1/0


EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

Summations Only

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8552
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 4366 of 5179 (770575)
10-08-2015 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4365 by Percy
10-08-2015 7:36 AM


Re: Gun Owners: Does the NRA speak for you?
I guess "Hell no" isn't very specific...
Understatement.
Yes, you as the authorized legal purchaser of a firearm may transfer its ownership, as a gift, to anyone legally qualified for gun ownership in their state of residence. Just like a vehicle, all legal paperwork required by the state of the person receiving the gift, being filed.
So giving your brother a shotgun for christmas or receiving a handgun as a gift from a friend? Barring any legal hold, hell yes, it can be done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4365 by Percy, posted 10-08-2015 7:36 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4367 by ringo, posted 10-08-2015 11:41 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 4367 of 5179 (770585)
10-08-2015 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 4366 by AZPaul3
10-08-2015 8:44 AM


Re: Gun Owners: Does the NRA speak for you?
AZPaul3 writes:
Barring any legal hold, hell yes, it can be done.
My hell no was more to the question, "SHOULD it be done?" I have no doubt that it CAN be done in many places. I wouldn't be surprised if there were places in the US where there are no "legal holds" to giving firearms to toddlers. The problem we are discussing in this thread is that the existing legal holds are woefully inadequate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4366 by AZPaul3, posted 10-08-2015 8:44 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4369 by Omnivorous, posted 10-08-2015 12:38 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 4368 of 5179 (770588)
10-08-2015 12:35 PM


90 Americans a Day Killed by Guns
Erik Eckholm writes in today's New York times:
quote:
Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, and now, a community college in Roseburg, Ore. One after another, mass shootings have horrified the nation, stoking debate about the availability of legal guns and anguish over the inability of society to keep weapons out of the hands of seething killers.
But such rampage killings are not the typical face of gun violence in America. Each day, some 30 people are victims of gun homicides, slain by rival gang members or drug dealers, trigger-happy robbers, drunken men after bar fights, frenzied family members or abusive partners. An additional 60 people a day kill themselves with guns.
Article here: Rampage Killings Get Attention, but Gun Violence Is Constant
--Percy

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3988
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


(2)
Message 4369 of 5179 (770589)
10-08-2015 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 4367 by ringo
10-08-2015 11:41 AM


Re: Gun Owners: Does the NRA speak for you?
ringo writes:
I have no doubt that it CAN be done in many places. I wouldn't be surprised if there were places in the US where there are no "legal holds" to giving firearms to toddlers. The problem we are discussing in this thread is that the existing legal holds are woefully inadequate.
Straw buyers move an enormous number of guns here in the U.S., and from here to Mexico. In states where guns cannot be bought or held by the accused in domestic abuse cases, straw buyers routinely rearm them.
Gun dealers continue to be upset in the southwest because they have to report same-day sales to the same individual of five or more high-powered rifles. Such a grossly over-regulated drag on doing business... On the other hand, it's good for labor: If your oil field job washed out, you can probably find work as a straw buyer.
The southeastern states provide most of the guns to the northeast through one form of straw buying or another, all with the intent to resell to folks in other states who could not legally obtain them.
There's a lot of money in them there guns.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4367 by ringo, posted 10-08-2015 11:41 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 4370 of 5179 (770610)
10-09-2015 7:47 AM


Oh, gee, another mass shooting, what a surprise.
Small one this time, at Arizona University in Flagstaff, not much information yet: Suspect in custody after shooting at N. Arizona University leaves 1 dead
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 4372 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2015 12:47 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(6)
Message 4371 of 5179 (770613)
10-09-2015 12:09 PM


Ammosexual fantasies
As I see it there are two rightwing , ammosexual fantasies that drive them. One is the idea that a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. When you actually look at it, this is a very scary idea. The last thing we need is untrained or minimally trained people engaging in firefights. Americans have watched too many moves and played too many video games. The idea that a weekend of training makes one capable of stopping a school shooting is ridiculous. Law enforcement and armed forces receive continual training and many instances with law enforcement show that even what they receive is not enough.
The crazy thing is that schools that have armed teachers are providing minimal training.
Argyle School district in Texas has a 30-hour training course that involves firing 900 rounds of ammunition.
Error 404 - Page Not Found
Even military veterans say this is a bad idea.
Page not found | The Nation
The second right wing ammosexual fantasy is the whole I am going to save the US from a tyrannical government. No one can show that this was the intent of the 2nd amendment. The founders were actually worried about the armed rabble and that is why they were for an armed, organized, well regulated militia. Not these yahoos in their self styled militias we have today. That is another argument for another day.
In order to justify their need to oppose government tyranny is the myth that armed farmers, shopkeepers and laborers defeated the British in the Revolutionary War. This is myth and revisionist history. The rabble got their asses kicked every time they went up against the British regulars.
The continental forces did not achieve anything of significance until they were trained and were a real army. The armed rabble usually were a hindrance because they had no discipline. The militia, being undisciplined and prone to panic caused the loss of a few battles. The Battle of Camden is a prime example.
Militia and armed rabble can not stand against regular army troops.
During the latter years of the war the militias were used to draw in the British, who knew the militia forces would break easily. This was used brilliantly by General Daniel Morgan at the Battle of Cowpens.
So what was the key to winning the Revolutionary War, if not the armed populace, which is over emphasized. Gun ownership was much lower than what people perceive. Guns were expensive and for someone that lived in a town or city, they had no practical purpose. Remember this is before most industrialization or cartridge guns. Handguns would have been extremely rare.
The key to winning the Revolutionary War was the British unable to or unwilling to commit the resources needed and the French Kingdom.
If Rochambeau had not convinced Washington to give up his plan to retake New York or if De Grasse had not defeated the British Navy at the Battle of the Chesapeake. There is a good chance the USA as it is never would have come into being.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4372 of 5179 (770616)
10-09-2015 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4370 by Percy
10-09-2015 7:47 AM


Re: Oh, gee, another mass shooting, what a surprise.
quote:
Two separate student groups got into a confrontation, the confrontation turned physical and one of our students, Steven Jones, 18, produced a handgun and shot four of our other students," Fowler said. "One of our students is deceased.
It's possible that this turned out exactly the way gun enthusiasts wanted it to, because God forbid anyone get into a confrontation and get his butt whupped.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4370 by Percy, posted 10-09-2015 7:47 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4373 by ringo, posted 10-09-2015 12:58 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4375 by Omnivorous, posted 10-09-2015 4:45 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4376 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2015 7:40 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4373 of 5179 (770618)
10-09-2015 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4372 by NoNukes
10-09-2015 12:47 PM


Re: Oh, gee, another mass shooting, what a surprise.
quote:
Two separate student groups got into a confrontation, the confrontation turned physical and one of our students, Steven Jones, 18, produced a handgun and shot four of our other students," Fowler said.
My first thought was that it was a bizarre end to a debate: reductio ad firearm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4372 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2015 12:47 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4374 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-09-2015 1:16 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 4374 of 5179 (770619)
10-09-2015 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 4373 by ringo
10-09-2015 12:58 PM


It's Latin: Reductio ad pistolium

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4373 by ringo, posted 10-09-2015 12:58 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3988
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 4375 of 5179 (770628)
10-09-2015 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 4372 by NoNukes
10-09-2015 12:47 PM


Re: Oh, gee, another mass shooting, what a surprise.
Just more student shenanigans. Look at the fun to be had in Texas:
quote:
A professor at the University of Texas at Austin says he is quitting because of the safety risks posed by the state’s new campus carry law, which will allow concealed handguns in classrooms, dorms and other campus buildings.
Daniel Hamermesh, an economics professor emeritus who has taught at the university since 1993, said in a letter to the college’s president that with a huge group of students my perception is that the risk that a disgruntled student might bring a gun into the classroom and start shooting at me has been substantially enhanced by the concealed-carry law.
The letter, published by the Daily Texan, said that rather than teach in Austin in fall 2016 and 2017, Hamermesh will out of self-protection instead spend part of next year at the University of Sydney, where, among other things, this risk seems lower.
The Republican-dominated Texas legislature passed the bill last summer. It goes into effect on 1 August next year. That date will mark the 50th anniversary of the first US mass college shooting — which took place on the University of Texas campus.
The law’s sponsor, state senator Brian Birdwell, has described bearing arms as a God-given right.
Tradition is big in Texas.
Oh, and elsewhere in Texas academe: Southern Texas University: Second fatal shooting on a U.S. campus today
Good times! Party hearty football schools with guns... What could go wrong?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4372 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2015 12:47 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 4376 of 5179 (770639)
10-10-2015 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 4372 by NoNukes
10-09-2015 12:47 PM


Re: Oh, gee, another mass shooting, what a surprise.
It's possible that this turned out exactly the way gun enthusiasts wanted it to, because God forbid anyone get into a confrontation and get his butt whupped.
Hate radios finest hour.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4372 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2015 12:47 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4377 by Heathen, posted 10-12-2015 3:51 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Heathen
Member (Idle past 1310 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 4377 of 5179 (770672)
10-12-2015 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 4376 by RAZD
10-10-2015 7:40 AM


Re: Oh, gee, another mass shooting, what a surprise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4376 by RAZD, posted 10-10-2015 7:40 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 99 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(2)
Message 4378 of 5179 (770703)
10-13-2015 1:55 AM


Now that's how to protest
This story seems to be creating something of a buzz:
Texas university students in dildo protest over gun law - BBC News

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 4380 by Omnivorous, posted 10-13-2015 6:47 PM vimesey has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 4379 of 5179 (770763)
10-13-2015 5:56 PM


What good's a gun if you can't use it?
Woman in Michigan Charged After Shooting at Fleeing Shoplifters
If we can't use our guns to deter criminals, what good are they?
quote:
Law enforcement officers said they would have held their fire in similar circumstances.
The criminals did not represent a threat to the shooter or anyone else, and apparently in Michigan a criminal has to threaten you or someone before you can use your own weapon.
The lesson in all this? Shoplifters in Michigan should wear educational signs saying, "You can't shoot at me, I'm unarmed."
--Percy

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3988
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 4380 of 5179 (770765)
10-13-2015 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4378 by vimesey
10-13-2015 1:55 AM


Re: Now that's how to protest
I can't believe you didn't lead your post with this quote:
quote:
"As a parent I feel more comfortable with my children having a weapon on campus rather than a dildo,"
The former could be a tragedy; the latter would be in all cicumstances embarrassing.
Family values.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4378 by vimesey, posted 10-13-2015 1:55 AM vimesey has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024