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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4411 of 5179 (771318)
10-24-2015 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 4409 by Theodoric
10-24-2015 10:49 AM


insurrections and state militias
... The founding fathers never expressed this interest ...
And in fact put in the Constitution that the militias were to be organized as needed by the states and used to suppress insurrections rather than instigate them, and that they would be under the command of the state and then ultimately the president.
... and it has never happened in real life.
John Brown?
There have in fact been many instances of insurrections (see Howard Zinn), but none of them have been with a state militia attacking the federal government.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : clrty

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 4409 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2015 10:49 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4412 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2015 12:34 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4412 of 5179 (771323)
10-24-2015 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 4411 by RAZD
10-24-2015 11:46 AM


Re: insurrections and state militias
You and Percy seem to have misunderstood me. Insurrections have happened, but they have not been the the masses armed with their personal weapons overthrowing the government.
The whiskey rebellion would be a strange example for the gun nuts to use.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4411 by RAZD, posted 10-24-2015 11:46 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4413 by ringo, posted 10-24-2015 12:38 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 4416 by NoNukes, posted 10-24-2015 1:17 PM Theodoric has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4413 of 5179 (771324)
10-24-2015 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 4412 by Theodoric
10-24-2015 12:34 PM


Re: insurrections and state militias
Theodoric writes:
The whiskey rebellion would be a strange example for the gun nuts to use.
By gun-nut logic, terrorists ought to have the right to bear arms against the government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4412 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2015 12:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4414 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2015 12:46 PM ringo has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4414 of 5179 (771325)
10-24-2015 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4413 by ringo
10-24-2015 12:38 PM


Re: insurrections and state militias
They would have to show that they really aren't standing up for the Constitution and rule of law. They would also have to show that their so called reverence for the founders is in actuality an opportunistic sham.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4413 by ringo, posted 10-24-2015 12:38 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4415 by ringo, posted 10-24-2015 1:06 PM Theodoric has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 4415 of 5179 (771326)
10-24-2015 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4414 by Theodoric
10-24-2015 12:46 PM


Re: insurrections and state militias
Theodoric writes:
They would have to show that they really aren't standing up for the Constitution and rule of law.
I forgot that no American - not even a rabid terrorist - would dream of challenging the Holy Constitution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4414 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2015 12:46 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4417 by Omnivorous, posted 10-24-2015 4:43 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4416 of 5179 (771327)
10-24-2015 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4412 by Theodoric
10-24-2015 12:34 PM


Re: insurrections and state militias
You and Percy seem to have misunderstood me. Insurrections have happened, but they have not been the the masses armed with their personal weapons overthrowing the government.
There have been a few examples of armed insurrections, with the most famous one being the Wilmington Massacre/Insurrection/Race Riot. I can understand why gun nuts don't bother to cite those.
ABE:
Gun nuts do cite the Battle of Athens as an example.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4412 by Theodoric, posted 10-24-2015 12:34 PM Theodoric has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 4417 of 5179 (771339)
10-24-2015 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4415 by ringo
10-24-2015 1:06 PM


Re: insurrections and state militias
ringo writes:
I forgot that no American - not even a rabid terrorist - would dream of challenging the Holy Constitution.
My sophomore civics teacher was a raging conservative in the midst of the 60s. When he called me a liberal for opposing the war and supporting universal healthcare and income guarantees, I told him, no, I'm a power-seeking radical It was a close call, whether he could sputter out that the Constitution would stop me before his head exploded.
After I coolly informed him that I had neither signed the Constitution nor taken any oath to support it, I spent some quality time in the principal's office.
But as a Good American, I recognize now that was truly a sophomoric attitude. Really.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4415 by ringo, posted 10-24-2015 1:06 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 4418 of 5179 (771549)
10-27-2015 8:50 AM


Bad dog, bad !
Dog named Trigger shoots owner in the foot - BBC News
There is clearly only one possible response to this situation: all dogs must immediately be armed ! (With muzzle loaders, naturally).
That way, whenever a good dog sees a bad dog about to shoot its owner, the good dog can kill it first.
It's the only logical and rational response to this tragedy.
(Oh, and more animal psychologists too, to help tackle the root cause of mentally ill animals).

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(4)
Message 4419 of 5179 (771567)
10-27-2015 10:50 AM


Bad joke, bad !
A dog walks into a saloon, blood dripping from its front leg. It looks round at the cowboys, rustlers, gamblers and townsfolk with an air of menace, and slowly drawls "I'm lookin' for the sunnabitch who shot ma paw !"

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4420 of 5179 (772309)
11-12-2015 9:47 AM


Now Europe wishes it had a second amendment
Heard people are buying guns in Europe
Islamic Invasion Pulls Trigger: Europe Now Scrambling for Guns
And it's mostly women getting the guns because Islamic men have carte blanche from Allah to rape and otherwise mistreat nonMuslim women.
Reports on rapes in Germany by the "migrants."
Just a moment...
More stories: Germany in a state of SIEGE after Angela Merkel opened floodgates to migrants | Daily Mail Online
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 4421 by vimesey, posted 11-12-2015 12:37 PM Faith has replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4421 of 5179 (772320)
11-12-2015 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 4420 by Faith
11-12-2015 9:47 AM


Re: Now Europe wishes it had a second amendment
No, we don't wish we had the second amendment.
We've had healthy, vibrant and active Muslim communities in Europe for decades, and despite some isolated (albeit tragic) attacks by minority wackos, there has never been any call for us to suddenly arm ourselves to the teeth in gibbering fear. We're made of sterner stuff.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4420 by Faith, posted 11-12-2015 9:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4422 by dronestar, posted 11-12-2015 1:15 PM vimesey has replied
 Message 4435 by Faith, posted 11-12-2015 4:10 PM vimesey has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 4422 of 5179 (772326)
11-12-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 4421 by vimesey
11-12-2015 12:37 PM


Re: Now Europe wishes it had a second amendment
vimesey writes:
We're made of sterner stuff.
Chuckle.
Here's a photo of Londoners suddenly arming yourselves to the teeth in gibbering fear.
The reason?
quote:
Armed and ready: For the first time since the Second World War, London's green space is transformed by anti-aircraft guns for Olympic ring of steel
Olympic security: London's green space transformed by anti-aircraft guns for Olympic ring of steel | Daily Mail Online
So far, gibbering americans wouldn't put anti-aircrft weapon atop their own apartment buildings.
Errrm, . . . so far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4421 by vimesey, posted 11-12-2015 12:37 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4423 by vimesey, posted 11-12-2015 1:31 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 4424 by vimesey, posted 11-12-2015 1:57 PM dronestar has not replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4423 of 5179 (772327)
11-12-2015 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4422 by dronestar
11-12-2015 1:15 PM


Re: Now Europe wishes it had a second amendment
An absence of gibbering fear does not equate to a failure on the part of the security forces to take precautions. Are you suggesting a binary choice between no preventative action at all, and arming all citizens ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4422 by dronestar, posted 11-12-2015 1:15 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4425 by dronestar, posted 11-12-2015 2:56 PM vimesey has replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4424 of 5179 (772329)
11-12-2015 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 4422 by dronestar
11-12-2015 1:15 PM


Re: Now Europe wishes it had a second amendment
So far, gibbering americans wouldn't put anti-aircrft weapon atop their own apartment buildings.
Just some SAMs around the key targets in Washington...
America's Capitol Is Guarded By Norwegian Surface-To-Air Missiles
(I have no idea how reliable this is as a source, but the language used is measured, and it obviously makes sense, in the context of taking sensible precautions)

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4422 by dronestar, posted 11-12-2015 1:15 PM dronestar has not replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1417
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 4425 of 5179 (772331)
11-12-2015 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4423 by vimesey
11-12-2015 1:31 PM


Re: Now Europe wishes it had a second amendment
Oh Vimesey. I usually like your posts. How disappointing.
It seems your answer implies you would be quite happy and secure knowing there are batteries of anti-aircraft weaponry on the roof of your home for the sake of finding out who in the world is the best twirler or jumper, or whatever the olympic games measure.
Ewww.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4423 by vimesey, posted 11-12-2015 1:31 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4426 by vimesey, posted 11-12-2015 3:10 PM dronestar has replied

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