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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again Summations Only
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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Astrophile
Member
Posts: 67
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 5056 of 5179 (821212)
10-03-2017 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 5031 by New Cat's Eye
07-05-2017 10:37 AM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
New Cat's Eye writes:

The congressman.

Thank-you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5031 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 10:37 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10126
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 5057 of 5179 (821241)
10-04-2017 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 5047 by ringo
10-03-2017 12:27 PM


Re: Las Vegas
Silencers are for hearing protection?

I'll admit to having a skeptical first reaction, but then I remembered the ear protection I had to wear when I had to qualify with a pistol in the military. If I had to work at gun range, I would like it very much if the weapons all had silencers. It would be good for my health.

I don't like the idea of silencers being used for hunting. I think same goes for any other situation where a loud report is useful for warning folks that shooters are around.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5047 by ringo, posted 10-03-2017 12:27 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5060 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 3:13 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3044
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 5058 of 5179 (821242)
10-04-2017 12:34 PM


Chart Help
I always thought it was rather obvious that, basically, more guns = more death issues.

I saw a few "facts" in a Cracked.com article.

Cracked isn't exactly known for being factual now (or ever?), so it's quite possible these are misleading on purpose.
I was wondering if someone more focused on this issue could explain the seemingly-incorrect ideas the following is making.

Here's the article: 19 Commonly held beliefs debunked with statistics

And I'm most interested in any rebuttle (or even support, I guess) for #18 and #2.

#18 seems to want to say that there is no significant correlation between number-of-guns and homicide-rate.
I don't know if I don't understand the chart, or if their text is misleading or what... but I always thought that number-of-guns generally gave a higher homicide-rate and that it was fairly clear.

#2 says the US doesn't spend an alarming amount on it's military when looked at as a percentage of GDP.
I'm not sure if this is really a big point or not. But feel free to discuss, or clarify if you find it interesting.


Replies to this message:
 Message 5070 by Percy, posted 10-04-2017 5:57 PM Stile has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13987
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5059 of 5179 (821256)
10-04-2017 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5054 by Modulous
10-03-2017 5:18 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:

Out of curiosity - what do you envisage them being used for?


They're used for sneaking around and shooting people in secret, so nobody hears you and comes after you. Duh.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5054 by Modulous, posted 10-03-2017 5:18 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5061 by Modulous, posted 10-04-2017 3:39 PM ringo has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13987
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5060 of 5179 (821257)
10-04-2017 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 5057 by NoNukes
10-04-2017 11:04 AM


Re: Las Vegas
NoNukes writes:

I don't like the idea of silencers being used for hunting.


I don't like the idea of guns being used for hunting. I have no problem with killing animals but make it a fair fight.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5057 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2017 11:04 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7537
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5061 of 5179 (821259)
10-04-2017 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 5059 by ringo
10-04-2017 3:11 PM


Re: silencers

They're used for sneaking around and shooting people in secret, so nobody hears you and comes after you. Duh.

Ah yes, I forgot we were living in a movie or computer game


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5059 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 3:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5062 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 3:45 PM Modulous has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13987
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5062 of 5179 (821260)
10-04-2017 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 5061 by Modulous
10-04-2017 3:39 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:

Ah yes, I forgot we were living in a movie or computer game


In the real world, why do you think silencers are banned? Do you think our legislators are out to ruin the hearing of hunters?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5061 by Modulous, posted 10-04-2017 3:39 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5063 by DrJones*, posted 10-04-2017 4:01 PM ringo has responded
 Message 5092 by Modulous, posted 10-05-2017 4:09 PM ringo has responded

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 5063 of 5179 (821261)
10-04-2017 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 5062 by ringo
10-04-2017 3:45 PM


Re: silencers
In the real world, why do you think silencers are banned? Do you think our legislators are out to ruin the hearing of hunters?

if American gun laws are anything like Canadian gun laws, then they probably weren't written by people who know all that much about firearms. Suppressors/silencers aren't banned in the whole of the US.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5062 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 3:45 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5065 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 4:25 PM DrJones* has responded
 Message 5080 by Theodoric, posted 10-05-2017 11:05 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

GDR
Member
Posts: 4365
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5064 of 5179 (821263)
10-04-2017 4:15 PM


Gun laws In Austrailai
THis is from the linked article below.

quote:
In the decades before the Port Arthur killings, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia (defined by academics as the killing of five or more people, not including the shooter).

Since the 1996 gun reform, Australia has not had another mass shooting,

This is not to say gun violence has been eliminated. In December 2014, an armed gunman entered a Sydney cafe during the morning rush hour and took a group of people hostage. Two people were killed, and four were injured during the attack.


Impact of Aussie Gun Laws


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


Replies to this message:
 Message 5071 by Phat, posted 10-04-2017 7:43 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13987
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 5065 of 5179 (821264)
10-04-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5063 by DrJones*
10-04-2017 4:01 PM


Re: silencers
DrJones* writes:

if American gun laws are anything like Canadian gun laws, then they probably weren't written by people who know all that much about firearms.


We don't get the murderers to write our laws on murder either.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5063 by DrJones*, posted 10-04-2017 4:01 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5066 by DrJones*, posted 10-04-2017 4:39 PM ringo has responded

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 5066 of 5179 (821265)
10-04-2017 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 5065 by ringo
10-04-2017 4:25 PM


Re: silencers
We don't get the murderers to write our laws on murder either

that's a false comparison. My point was that the ones writing the laws might not be all the educated on the subject of the law. Like if I, a non-doctor, was involved in a bill that that banned certain medical practices.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5065 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 4:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5067 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 4:43 PM DrJones* has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13987
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5067 of 5179 (821268)
10-04-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5066 by DrJones*
10-04-2017 4:39 PM


Re: silencers
DrJones* writes:

My point was that the ones writing the laws might not be all the educated on the subject of the law. Like if I, a non-doctor, was involved in a bill that that banned certain medical practices.


Like I said, our bills that ban certain medical practices are written by people who are mostly all non-doctors. It might be nice if they consulted with doctors but it isn't mandatory. They don't consult with murderers about banning murder procedures.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5066 by DrJones*, posted 10-04-2017 4:39 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5068 by DrJones*, posted 10-04-2017 4:48 PM ringo has responded

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1683
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 5068 of 5179 (821270)
10-04-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5067 by ringo
10-04-2017 4:43 PM


Re: silencers
you said:
Do you think our legislators are out to ruin the hearing of hunters?

my reply was trying to answer this question. My position is the legislators may not be aware that there are non-stealthy-hollywood-murderer reasons for owning a suppressor.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5067 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 4:43 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5069 by ringo, posted 10-04-2017 4:56 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13987
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5069 of 5179 (821272)
10-04-2017 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5068 by DrJones*
10-04-2017 4:48 PM


Re: silencers
DrJones writes:

My position is the legislators may not be aware that there are non-stealthy-hollywood-murderer reasons for owning a suppressor.


It doesn't matter if silencers have good effects. We ban things because of the bad effects.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5068 by DrJones*, posted 10-04-2017 4:48 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5073 by NoNukes, posted 10-05-2017 12:58 AM ringo has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 16339
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5070 of 5179 (821278)
10-04-2017 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5058 by Stile
10-04-2017 12:34 PM


Re: Chart Help
I don't have an answer for you, but I do have a little information. There's little correlation between number of guns in a country and homicide rates because of the "gun collector" factor. In the US gun collecting is very popular. There are more guns than people in US. The popularity of gun collecting varies across countries without discernible rhyme or reason.

A more meaningful correlation for comparing countries would be between the homicide rate and the gun ownership rate, where the number of guns owned isn't considered. The gun ownership rate could be by household or by individual.

BBC had a good article today that contains part of the information you want:

America's gun culture in 10 charts

Here's a graph I posted a couple years ago in Message 4502:

Here's a graph I posted a good long time ago showing the levels of gun ownership by country:

Here's a scatterplot I made and posted in Message 3018. It shows that by state there is no apparent relationship between gun prevalence and gun homicides:

Here's a great paper originally posted in Message 3151 that found that each percentage point increase in gun ownership resulted in a .9% increase in gun homicide: The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 19812010. Oh, darn, it's behind a paywall now.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5058 by Stile, posted 10-04-2017 12:34 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5074 by Stile, posted 10-05-2017 9:14 AM Percy has responded

  
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