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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 5101 of 5112 (821432)
10-07-2017 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 5100 by Modulous
10-06-2017 5:55 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:

Yes. They are used to avoid damaging the ears, to avoid noise pollution complaints when hunting or recreational shooting and to reduce recoil as primary purposes.


Evidence?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5100 by Modulous, posted 10-06-2017 5:55 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5102 by Modulous, posted 10-08-2017 3:19 PM ringo has responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7440
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 5102 of 5112 (821494)
10-08-2017 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5101 by ringo
10-07-2017 11:38 AM


Re: silencers
Evidence?

What would you count as evidence?

Everybody I've seen talk about suppressors who uses them on the internet cites those reasons. Their usage in criminal acts is low. There are about a million of them in circulation, the NIOSH and CDC suggest their use for hearing protection for those who are exposed to lots of gunfire (for instance regular attendees or workers at gun ranges).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5101 by ringo, posted 10-07-2017 11:38 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5103 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2017 9:25 AM Modulous has responded
 Message 5108 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 11:42 AM Modulous has responded

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1812
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 5103 of 5112 (821545)
10-09-2017 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 5102 by Modulous
10-08-2017 3:19 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:

...hearing protection for those who are exposed to lots of gunfire (for instance regular attendees or workers at gun ranges)...

But they are notorious for ruining the accuracy of your shot. Why would you want to use one at the shooting range when you can use perfectly good headphones?

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5102 by Modulous, posted 10-08-2017 3:19 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5104 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-09-2017 11:46 AM xongsmith has responded
 Message 5106 by Modulous, posted 10-09-2017 4:47 PM xongsmith has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11761
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 5104 of 5112 (821556)
10-09-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 5103 by xongsmith
10-09-2017 9:25 AM


Re: silencers
Why would you want to use one at the shooting range when you can use perfectly good headphones?

WHAT!?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5103 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2017 9:25 AM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5105 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2017 11:59 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1812
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 5105 of 5112 (821559)
10-09-2017 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 5104 by New Cat's Eye
10-09-2017 11:46 AM


Re: silencers
...headphones

WHAT!?

Ear protection, like the kind you wear when you ride in the front beside the pilot of a helicopter. So you can hear the pilot talking over the blades.

*shrug*

Edited by xongsmith, : No reason given.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5104 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-09-2017 11:46 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7440
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 5106 of 5112 (821587)
10-09-2017 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 5103 by xongsmith
10-09-2017 9:25 AM


Re: silencers
But they are notorious for ruining the accuracy of your shot.

What they are notorious for is unimportant. The truth is more important. In truth, for most applications and contexts, they improve accuracy by reducing recoil.

quote:
Modern suppressors allow the use of full-power ammunition, do not reduce the muzzle velocity, do not contact the bullet during flight, and often aid accuracy. On high-power rifles, a suppressor acts like a muzzle brake and reduces recoil, and of course, the ka-BOOM report of the shot is reduced 25-30 dB, yielding a sound not unlike high-pressure gas escaping from an air hose being disconnected.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/...sors-what-you-need-to-know

quote:
Unless improperly installed or attached, suppressors do make shooting more accurate. Velocity change is low to nonexistent and generally increases. Modern designs have no adverse affect on the bullet. Standard deviation decreases, as a rule, providing consistency, and significant recoil reduction allows you to be more accurate.

http://www.gundigest.com/gear-ammo/suppressor-effects

Why would you want to use one at the shooting range when you can use perfectly good headphones?

a) A suppressor reduces the noise for everyone. So if someone has ear protection removed for some reason when a shot is fired, they are still protected.

b) People who are living nearby will thank you. Traditionally watching television with ear protection on is couter productive.

c) Shooters wearing ear protection are less likely to hear someone warning of a dangerous situation.

d) In any event:

. Many people recommend using both for best protection against long term damage.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5103 by xongsmith, posted 10-09-2017 9:25 AM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5107 by xongsmith, posted 10-10-2017 12:49 AM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1812
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 5107 of 5112 (821654)
10-10-2017 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 5106 by Modulous
10-09-2017 4:47 PM


Re: silencers
i stand corrected!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5106 by Modulous, posted 10-09-2017 4:47 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 5108 of 5112 (821665)
10-10-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 5102 by Modulous
10-08-2017 3:19 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:

There are about a million of them in circulation....


So, a fraction of one per cent.

The next question would be: In the states where silencers are illegal, why?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5102 by Modulous, posted 10-08-2017 3:19 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5109 by Modulous, posted 10-10-2017 1:46 PM ringo has responded

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7440
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 5109 of 5112 (821687)
10-10-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 5108 by ringo
10-10-2017 11:42 AM


Re: silencers
There are about a million of them in circulation....

So, a fraction of one per cent.

I'm not sure what that fraction is? Per gun in circulation? Yes.

The next question would be: In the states where silencers are illegal, why?

That was an earlier question. You asked it in Message 5062. My answer was

quote:
I assume local politics is the reason, but I haven't taken the time to track down the arguments made in the legislature when the bills were being passed.

NoNukes gave details of:

quote:
The Democrats in the US tend to cite law situations where enforcement cannot effectively find and track a shooting criminals because of the suppressor which lowers noise levels and the muzzle flash. Secondary arguments are that the suppressors are just one more gimmick to help gun manufacturers sell military weapons to the public. In other places, the primary objection seems to be that they are the tools of poachers.

If correct, 'local politics' seems about right. It seems reasonable to suppose it is correct.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5108 by ringo, posted 10-10-2017 11:42 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5111 by ringo, posted 10-11-2017 3:12 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3553
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 5110 of 5112 (821695)
10-10-2017 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 5086 by Phat
10-05-2017 12:14 PM


Have the tools, do the war
My appraisal - A gun nut who collected a supply (of approximations) of weapons of war.

The next step is to cross the line and execute a little war.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5086 by Phat, posted 10-05-2017 12:14 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 5111 of 5112 (821726)
10-11-2017 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5109 by Modulous
10-10-2017 1:46 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:

If correct, 'local politics' seems about right. It seems reasonable to suppose it is correct.


Because of the small number of silencers in actual use, it seems likely that banning and legalizing are both based on local politics.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5109 by Modulous, posted 10-10-2017 1:46 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 5112 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2017 4:56 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9991
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5112 of 5112 (821737)
10-11-2017 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5111 by ringo
10-11-2017 3:12 PM


Re: silencers
"Because of the small number of silencers in actual use, it seems likely that banning and legalizing are both based on local politics."

It appears that legalizing at least has arrived as a national political issue. The Republicans want to pass laws that will repeal state law in 16 states.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5111 by ringo, posted 10-11-2017 3:12 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
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