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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again Summations Only
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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11840
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 5161 of 5179 (823742)
11-16-2017 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5158 by NoNukes
11-15-2017 8:00 PM


Re: Endless Mass Shootings
Sure, when you want to argue about guns, then there are natural gun rights. At other times, apparently, there were not.

You're full of shit.

But I guess since you have to resort to arguing the person instead of the position then that just goes to show that I'm right on this one. I suppose I could thank you for that but I'm not gonna because you're being an asshole.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5158 by NoNukes, posted 11-15-2017 8:00 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5164 by AdminPhat, posted 11-16-2017 10:54 AM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 5168 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13965
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5162 of 5179 (823743)
11-16-2017 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 5156 by New Cat's Eye
11-15-2017 4:05 PM


Re: Texas This Time
New cat's Eye writes:

Turns out you don't know what you're talking about.


I know what it says in English. Ignoring half of the sentence is egregiously wrong, whether it's the Supreme Court doing it or not.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5156 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-15-2017 4:05 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13965
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5163 of 5179 (823745)
11-16-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 5159 by NoNukes
11-15-2017 8:08 PM


Re: Texas This Time
NoNukes writes:

The Supreme Court has not, in fact, rendered any decision that make it impossible to prevent violently insane people from obtaining guns, provided due process is provided.


You seem to have lost the plot. My point is that the Supreme Court could make it harder for violently insane people to obtain guns - and for violently sane people to obtain guns and for clumsily incompetent people to obtain guns, and so on. The wording is right there in the sacred 2nd amendment but they choose to studiously ignore it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5159 by NoNukes, posted 11-15-2017 8:08 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5169 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:26 PM ringo has responded

AdminPhat
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Posts: 1829
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 5164 of 5179 (823746)
11-16-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 5161 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2017 10:36 AM


Re: Endless Mass Shootings
Falling asleep at the wheel?

Forum Guidelines I feel like a referee at a boxing match. OK Break it up....ding ding


  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 5161 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2017 10:36 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5165 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2017 11:04 AM AdminPhat has responded

      
    New Cat's Eye
    Member
    Posts: 11840
    From: near St. Louis
    Joined: 01-27-2005
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 5165 of 5179 (823748)
    11-16-2017 11:04 AM
    Reply to: Message 5164 by AdminPhat
    11-16-2017 10:54 AM


    Re: Endless Mass Shootings
    Falling asleep at the wheel?

    I'm tired of the personal attacks.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5164 by AdminPhat, posted 11-16-2017 10:54 AM AdminPhat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5166 by AdminPhat, posted 11-16-2017 11:08 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

    AdminPhat
    Administrator
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    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-03-2004
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 5166 of 5179 (823750)
    11-16-2017 11:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 5165 by New Cat's Eye
    11-16-2017 11:04 AM


    Personal Attacks
    I agree that they often get out of hand. One problem is that many of us know each other...through our writings at least--so well. Its like a family feud.

    I encourage everyone to argue the position and not the person, though we often cannot resist taking jabs at our opponents.


  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 5165 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2017 11:04 AM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

      
    New Cat's Eye
    Member
    Posts: 11840
    From: near St. Louis
    Joined: 01-27-2005
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 5167 of 5179 (823752)
    11-16-2017 11:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 5157 by Modulous
    11-15-2017 4:14 PM


    Re: sense, possibly even common
    Around 1- in-5 to 1-in-3 sales are done in such a way that avoids background checks as a requirement.

    So 20-30% hugeness. That's consistent with my collection.

    I wonder how that amount compares to the amount of gun transfers that are happening in the dark.

    I'm not against background checks, but personally I'd rather hassle the people who are committing crimes than those who aren't.

    I guess "closing the loophole" would mean that every time I sell a gun I would have to go through an FFL? Essentially banning all private transfers, period?

    Firearm Owners Protection Act is a Federal law, right? The one that bans the sale of automatic weapons, with exceptions surrounding grandfathered weapons?

    Yeah, that's federal. You can still be permitted to buy a machine gun if you pay a tax to the ATF and it was manufactured before 1986, iirc.

    I've shot a couple machine guns, one was a MAC-11 - what a hot mess.

    What are the top five common sense gun control measures that will have the biggest impact on the goals that are trying to be achieved?

    Good question. Here's my attempt to an answer:

    1) Ban handguns
    2) Band semi-automatic weapons
    3) Ban weapons capable of holding more than four rounds

    Ooh, straight to banning guns. Nice, thanks for being honest.

    4) Require a licence to hold a firearm.

    We have that in Illinois and it's not working here. Maybe at a federal level it would have a bigger impact, but I dunno.

    Out of curiosity: How would you feel about a free speech license? Or a license for due process?

    5) Require insurance for owning a weapon to cover expenses to property and payment of injury claims that may occur as a result of accidents, negligence or deliberate misuse of a weapon.

    What's the goal for that one?

    Could that goal be met with the penalties from criminal charges?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5157 by Modulous, posted 11-15-2017 4:14 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

    NoNukes
    Member
    Posts: 10116
    From: Central NC USA
    Joined: 08-13-2010
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 5168 of 5179 (823755)
    11-16-2017 12:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 5161 by New Cat's Eye
    11-16-2017 10:36 AM


    Re: Endless Mass Shootings
    You're full of shit.

    I am also telling the truth. I understand that you don't like folks pointing to your past posts. Too bad.

    But I guess since you have to resort to arguing the person instead of the position

    I am citing your positions and the result is picture of you that you do not like. I am not going to apologize for that.

    Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


    Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

    I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

    We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

    Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

    I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5161 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2017 10:36 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5173 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2017 12:57 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

      
    NoNukes
    Member
    Posts: 10116
    From: Central NC USA
    Joined: 08-13-2010
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 5169 of 5179 (823757)
    11-16-2017 12:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 5163 by ringo
    11-16-2017 10:49 AM


    Re: Texas This Time
    You seem to have lost the plot. My point is that the Supreme Court could make it harder for violently insane people to obtain guns

    I did not miss any such thing. I addressed the exact points you made, ringo.

    The Supreme Court has to allow the legislature to pass the laws. They have explicitly stated that Congress can pass laws to limit violently insane people from obtaining guns and that they are not overturning any laws that may be on the books that target the mentally ill. I notice the subtle shifting of the goalposts from your original statement which claimed that the Supreme Court and the NRA had said that such laws impossible.

    Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


    Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

    I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

    We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

    Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

    I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5163 by ringo, posted 11-16-2017 10:49 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5170 by ringo, posted 11-16-2017 12:32 PM NoNukes has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 13965
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 5170 of 5179 (823758)
    11-16-2017 12:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 5169 by NoNukes
    11-16-2017 12:26 PM


    Re: Texas This Time
    NoNukes writes:

    I notice the subtle shifting of the goalposts from your original statement which claimed that the Supreme Court and the NRA had made such laws impossible.


    Anybody who reads the thread can see that I said no such thing.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5169 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:26 PM NoNukes has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5171 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:42 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    NoNukes
    Member
    Posts: 10116
    From: Central NC USA
    Joined: 08-13-2010
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 5171 of 5179 (823760)
    11-16-2017 12:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 5170 by ringo
    11-16-2017 12:32 PM


    Re: Texas This Time
    ringo writes:


    Anybody who reads the thread can see that I said no such thing.

    Someone who read this thread will find this:

    NoNukes writes:

    Are you interpreting the US constitution as preventing the state from restricting access to guns by folks who are demonstrated to be violent under a process with the appropriate due process?

    ringo writes:

    I'm pointing out that that's how the US Constitution seems to be interpreted by the NRA and the Supreme Court.

    So, yeah, you did say some "such thing"

    But it turns out, that a reading of the Supreme Court decisions reveals the exact opposite of what you said, "seems to be". Now that I have pointed that out, you are claiming that you meant something else.

    Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

    Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


    Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

    I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

    We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

    Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

    I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5170 by ringo, posted 11-16-2017 12:32 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

      
    AdminPhat
    Administrator
    Posts: 1829
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-03-2004
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 5172 of 5179 (823761)
    11-16-2017 12:56 PM


    Closing For Now
    At 5171 posts, this thread has proved a useful forum with which to vent our opinions on guns, society, and each other. It is getting too out of hand, however. I am going to start a sequel and maybe we can all start afresh.

  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  •   
    New Cat's Eye
    Member
    Posts: 11840
    From: near St. Louis
    Joined: 01-27-2005
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 5173 of 5179 (823763)
    11-16-2017 12:57 PM
    Reply to: Message 5168 by NoNukes
    11-16-2017 12:20 PM


    Re: Endless Mass Shootings
    I am also telling the truth.

    No, you're not. And you're breaking the rules.

    I understand that you don't like folks pointing to your past posts.

    You haven't pointed to anything. You're just gossiping about irrelevant shit.

    I am citing your positions and the result is picture of you that you do not like.

    You haven't cited shit. You're just talking about something I may or may not have said in the past. It's off topic and beside the point - i.e. completely useless. You're also wrong about the position I took.

    And I can't care less about the picture, liar. But why are you so interested in what I do or do not like? Why do you care about me personally? You don't know me nor what I think. That you're lying about me personally is pretty insulting though - although, it's sad and pathetic that you care about this at all.

    Also, you're retarded to think that I have to have the exact same position on every single thread. Hell, I like debates where I'm assigned a position.

    People can take a position in a debate that they are not emotionally involved in - well, not you, but people better than you can.

    Also, and you might want to sit down for this one: People's opinions can change.

    There are things I think these days that are different from things I've thought in the past. Whoopty-fucking-do!

    I am not going to apologize for that.

    I'm not looking for an apology. I'm saying fuck you asshole.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5168 by NoNukes, posted 11-16-2017 12:20 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 5234
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.2


    (1)
    Message 5174 of 5179 (823766)
    11-16-2017 1:06 PM


    I don't think this thread should be closed, it's a useful repository for the collection of gun death incidents. The longer it gets, the more compelling the argument.

    It should speak for itself.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    Replies to this message:
     Message 5176 by Phat, posted 11-16-2017 1:29 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 16298
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 2.5


    (1)
    Message 5175 of 5179 (823770)
    11-16-2017 1:23 PM


    One more reason for not closing this thread...
    This thread is a repository for a great deal of information and arguments about gun control and mass murders. One thread, one place to search. Closing this thread and opening a new one would require two places to search. The same logic applies to the The Trump Presidency thread. Trump will be president for four or eight years. One thread, one place to search for stuff.

    --Percy


      
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