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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again Summations Only
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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Phat
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Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 5176 of 5179 (823771)
11-16-2017 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5174 by Tangle
11-16-2017 1:06 PM


The new thread is simply a continuation of the record. We now have had three, with the overall record being preserved through all of them.

Gun Control

Gun Control Again

And the current one:
Gun Control III

My reasoning is that there are too many side arguments that drag the thread out rather than focusing on guns themselves. I hope this is ok with you, Percy...you were the one with the most posts in the second sequel.

My plan is for the third sequel to simply resume the discussion---minus internal bickering.

Edited by Phat, : explanation


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5174 by Tangle, posted 11-16-2017 1:06 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Modulous
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Posts: 7537
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5177 of 5179 (823783)
11-16-2017 3:52 PM


Re: sense, possibly even common
New Cat's Eye -

So 20-30% hugeness. That's consistent with my collection.

Yes, the private market is pretty big. So if you want to avoid those checks - the loophole is wide enough for anyone to step through. No specialist knowledge is required.

I'm not against background checks, but personally I'd rather hassle the people who are committing crimes than those who aren't.

The point of the background check is to identify someone who has committed crimes. How else is a seller to know?

I guess "closing the loophole" would mean that every time I sell a gun I would have to go through an FFL? Essentially banning all private transfers, period?

Every time I sell a car there is paperwork to notify the change in ownership of the vehicle to the government. It doesn't ban me from selling my car privately.

Ooh, straight to banning guns. Nice, thanks for being honest.

Not all guns, just the ones that a clearly liable to causing problems.

We have that in Illinois and it's not working here. Maybe at a federal level it would have a bigger impact, but I dunno.

When a Chicago resident can pop over to Gary without much fuss, it does render the States a poor bellweather. Studies have indicated that many of the guns used in crimes in Chicago were bought in Indiana.

Out of curiosity: How would you feel about a free speech license? Or a license for due process?

Are you really curious? It looks like rhetoric to me. I don't see the need for the licences you reference. Illegally holding a firearm or driving a vehicle are possible, and it's good to have a system the police can use to efficiently estimate if that is the case.

I don't see any instances of a person who is prohibited from engaging in free speech or is banned from due process.

What's the goal for that one?

To allow victim's of damages to sue for costs and compensation. A firearm injury can rack up $350k in medical costs - and that doesn't take into account loss of earnings or business, compensation for pains and lost opportunities during recovery etc. The medical costs are typically borne by the tax payer or the victim's own insurance.

If gun holder's were insured - their insurance would cover the costs of any damage their negligence or malice caused rather than the injured party or the tax payer. Much like with car insurance.

Could that goal be met with the penalties from criminal charges?

I doubt many shooters are capable of covering those kinds of costs so fining people for that amount wouldn't generally result in the victim receiving compensation. A criminal going to prison doesn't pay a victim's doctor, doesn't pay their rent if they are unable to work for extended periods, doesn't cover their transportation costs if they are unable to drive or walk for some time etc.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10116
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5178 of 5179 (823785)
11-16-2017 4:59 PM


Summary
I doubt that anything will ever be done about the gun problem in the United States. The politics of the situation is such that all reasonable inferences we would make about any other situation are off limits when we are talking about gun control.

We don't allow our government organizations to conduct research in the area, our legislature won't vote on ideas that the majority of the country is on board with, and some of us make arguments that we would not accept in other contexts.

Let's see what happens in the next thread.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10230
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 5179 of 5179 (823813)
11-17-2017 11:45 AM


This Topic Never Ends
This is my summation, yet in the matter of gun control and gun violence, there is no National Consensus, summation, or resolution. The topic never ends, but will be continuing here:
Gun Control III

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

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