Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9163 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,416 Year: 3,673/9,624 Month: 544/974 Week: 157/276 Day: 31/23 Hour: 1/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Climate Change is Real
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5 of 43 (687092)
01-07-2013 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coyote
01-07-2013 11:20 AM


Re: Science first?
AGW Bombshell? A new paper shows statistical tests for global warming fails to find statistically significantly anthropogenic forcing
From three economists?
Well this is a statistcal study of some of the data and their math is probably all right.
I'll await the climatologists take on the data used in this analysis as well as a recheck of the math.
From what we know already after decades of study, I wouldn't hold my breath. This extraordinary claim, at first glance, does not appear to contain the extraordinary level of evidence required. But we shall see.
Before we spend several trillion dollars we don't have and ruin the global economy, let's get the science settled first.
If my understanding of the state of the present science is acurate then it's already too late. The effects will become more and more dire over the next 30, 40, 50+ generations and there is not anything we can do to stop it. All we can do if we started in ernest today is to slow the accelerating rate of damage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coyote, posted 01-07-2013 11:20 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-07-2013 5:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 14 of 43 (687125)
01-07-2013 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Adequate
01-07-2013 5:09 PM


Re: Science first?
Well, we all know that there's no-one so good at predicting the future as economists. Nothing ever takes them by surprise.
Hey Bub,
One of my Masters is in Economics and I assure you, given the level of math skill needed to model complex chaotic systems like the economy and climatology, it always takes us by surprise when one of us gets something right!
OK, it doesn't happen often but when it does it is one hell of a surprise.
So there!
Edited by AZPaul3, : some change or other. I forget.
Edited by AZPaul3, : something else I forgot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-07-2013 5:09 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 15 of 43 (687130)
01-07-2013 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Adequate
01-07-2013 5:44 PM


Re: Science first?
I seem to remember that after one has made a capital investment in a coal-fired power plant, it is necessary to keep buying coal to put in it. Sunlight is comparatively cheap.
Sunlight is cheap for sure, but the technology to convert it to useful work is not. Strictly looking at operating costs coal is still more productive than solar. That's why solar has not replaced coal.
The problem is that our accounting systems do not account for the true social and environmental "costs" of such a plant. Only the operating cash flow is considered. If there were a way to assess an environmental damage cost as a journal entry into the expense system then the equation would be considerably different.
That's not going to happen. So until our solar technology reaches a point where it is less expensive, on an operating cash flow basis, than digging coal out of the ground and shipping it many hundreds of miles, then coal will remain. We humans will always opt for the cheaper solution in order to maximize return on investment.
Edited by AZPaul3, : What I said made no damn sense at all. Had to change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-07-2013 5:44 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024