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Author Topic:   Climate Change is Real
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3529
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 31 of 43 (787380)
07-11-2016 9:11 PM


Calling out the Koch Brothers
Maybe close to a bare link, but here it is:

http://scienceblogs.com/.../11/calling-out-the-koch-brothers

quote:
Washington, DC – Today, Monday, from 4:45 p.m. to 6:45 p.m., tomorrow, Tuesday, from 5 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., and throughout the week,* 19 Senators will take to the Senate floor to call out Koch brothers- and fossil fuel industry-funded groups that have fashioned a web of denial to block action on climate change.

quote:
WHO:

Senator Harry Reid (D-NV)
Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI)
Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY)
Senator Ben Cardin (D-MD)
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)
Senator Tom Udall (D-NM)
Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)
Senator Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
Senator Al Franken (D-MN)
Senator Chris Coons (D-DE)
Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT)
Senator Brian Schatz (D-HI)
Senator Martin Heinrich (D-NM)
Senator Tim Kaine (D-VA)
Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)
Senator Edward Markey (D-MA)
Senator Gary Peters (D-MI)


See the cite for more details.

Now to see what comes of this. Any Republicans going to join in?

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by frako, posted 07-12-2016 5:47 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded
 Message 33 by Pressie, posted 07-12-2016 6:40 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2702
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 32 of 43 (787393)
07-12-2016 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Minnemooseus
07-11-2016 9:11 PM


Re: Calling out the Koch Brothers
Yea but i still don't think anything will be done until something catastrophic happens(to a powerfull white country). And there is nothing that can be done in the short term, so not to sound melodramatic but the end is nigh.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-11-2016 9:11 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1714
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 33 of 43 (787394)
07-12-2016 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Minnemooseus
07-11-2016 9:11 PM


Re: Calling out the Koch Brothers
Goodness gracious me. Only 19 US Senators? Out of 100? For such a powerful country? It doesn't bode well for the future of humanity.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-11-2016 9:11 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by NoNukes, posted 07-16-2016 8:37 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 34 of 43 (787405)
07-12-2016 3:02 PM


Democratic party platform now for outlawing fracking (Sanders forced it!)
I always thought it odd that Sanders was expected to beat Hillary in North Dakota (which he did by over 30 points on the final day of voting on June 7 - minus the D.C. vote), when he was for banning fracking.

He was vocal in debates (like the Michigan debate) about it too.

He still won Montana and North Dakota on the final day of voting (and if that isn't ironic enough, he ended up loosing California - where fracking is extremely unpopular among Democratic party voters) when he lost the other 4 contests.

Hillary wasn't too eager to make an issue of his opposition though (because she needed Democratic voters in the big coastal states of the east and west), so that explains it.

Wind and Solar are the whole ballgame among the future Democratic party?


Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 07-12-2016 6:43 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 43 (787411)
07-12-2016 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by LamarkNewAge
07-12-2016 3:02 PM


Re: Democratic party platform now for outlawing fracking (Sanders forced it!)
I always thought it odd that Sanders was expected to beat Hillary in North Dakota (which he did by over 30 points on the final day of voting on June 7 - minus the D.C. vote), when he was for banning fracking.

Apparently, in ND, fracking is not the biggest issue. Beyond the fracking stuff, weren't the demographics in ND pretty similar to what we found in most of the states that turned out to be Sanders landslides?

About fracking in ND, the cheap price of gasoline has pretty much reduced the fracking economy to a naught point diddly squat. That might have a lot to do with things.

http://www.reuters.com/...pecial-report/usa-northdakota-bust

quote:
The fracking party is over, and a quiet desperation has descended on the state's once-booming communities and the thousands of people who were drawn to them.

That future has evaporated. Those who haven't packed up and left the Bakken are facing a new reality of smaller budgets, fewer residents and the physical detritus of a building boom that left behind hundreds of empty apartments.

Williston's Walmart has cut hourly pay 15 percent. The Salvation Army, facing slipping donations, reduced gasoline and food assistance by a third. Statewide, oil tax revenue is down nearly 70 percent from this time last year.


Maybe the minimum wage, for example, is more important to the vast number of folks in ND who have not yet beat feet out of that wasteland.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-12-2016 3:02 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-12-2016 7:03 PM NoNukes has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 36 of 43 (787413)
07-12-2016 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
07-12-2016 6:43 PM


Re: Democratic party platform now for outlawing fracking (Sanders forced it!)
You have to cite an article that mentioned the the Sheister I mean Salvation Army.

Make me barf.

Yick.

But interesting article.

However.

The Bakken fields are the cheapest to extract, plus the infrastructure has already been built for the wells. The banning of fracked oil would be felt especially since oil is back up to $50 per barrel.

Best to just focus on building new power plants, and consumer solar panels, batteries, etc.

Solar and wind can carry their own weight, without allowing a "these alternative sources of energy are only economically viable with extreme levels of government interference" gun to be pointed at them.

Environmental policy is screwed with misguided (very bad) political policy being constantly pushed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 07-12-2016 6:43 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2016 3:06 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 43 (787422)
07-13-2016 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by LamarkNewAge
07-12-2016 7:03 PM


Re: Democratic party platform now for outlawing fracking (Sanders forced it!)
Environmental policy is screwed with misguided (very bad) political policy being constantly pushed.

Banning fracking may be a bad policy. But the popularity of banning fracking as a policy is compared to the adoption policies pursued by the opposing party. Using my state as an example of a state in which the republicans dominate state level politics, the adoption policies appear to be enormous, and risky concessions to the industry regarding negotiating for rights with land owners, control of emissions and waste water, environmental oversight, and removal of any attempt ability for localities to pass ordinances protecting their citizens. Fracking has the potential for providing an enormous benefit along with an enormous carbon footprint. Yet in NC policy is set by folks who will never acknowledge AGW until we get some beach front property here in Durham.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-12-2016 7:03 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-13-2016 12:02 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 38 of 43 (787429)
07-13-2016 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NoNukes
07-13-2016 3:06 AM


Re: Democratic party platform now for outlawing fracking (Sanders forced it!)
quote:

Banning fracking may be a bad policy

It is a bad strategy because the policy can never be implemented.

It just confuses the issue (in so many ways)when government interferes to ban energy sources.

Just support wind and solar (never happened yet).

Put up (the hundreds of billions of $$$ over the next few years) or shut up.

That's my message to the government decision makers and those who want to become members of the policy making bodies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2016 3:06 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 43 (787509)
07-16-2016 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Pressie
07-12-2016 6:40 AM


Re: Calling out the Koch Brothers
Goodness gracious me. Only 19 US Senators? Out of 100? For such a powerful country? It doesn't bode well for the future of humanity.

19 out of the 44 senators who have any likelihood of not going along with the Koch brothers.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Pressie, posted 07-12-2016 6:40 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-16-2016 3:21 PM NoNukes has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 40 of 43 (787517)
07-16-2016 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by NoNukes
07-16-2016 8:37 AM


Calling out the Koch Brothers
But will the Koch brothers object to the federal government building a lot of solar-power plants?

A massive wind farms investment by the federal government?

Nobody has proposed it.

So we don't know.

We know that they don't want energy regulations, taxes, and price increases.

Then again, neither does the public.

The environmental movement has caused every green idea to be stained with the(green slime?) thought of higher prices and economic misery (nightmares of not being able to make the utility payments, powering up a car, home foreclosures, price inflation, job losses, etc.).

The Koch brothers are successful because of the green slime effect the environmental movement has allowed wind and solar (with everything else green) to be painted with.

Damaged goods need repairs, not more of the same.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by NoNukes, posted 07-16-2016 8:37 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 07-16-2016 4:31 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 43 (787520)
07-16-2016 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by LamarkNewAge
07-16-2016 3:21 PM


Re: Calling out the Koch Brothers
But will the Koch brothers object to the federal government building a lot of solar-power plants?

Sigh. Let's examine their record on this subject.

http://www.nytimes.com/...e-koch-attack-on-solar-energy.html

http://whowhatwhy.org/...-brothers-block-sun-experiment-iowa

http://www.truth-out.org/...g-anti-solar-campaign-in-florida

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/...rothers-opposing-solar.html

http://www.latimes.com/...-20140420-story.html#axzz2zSLfKKoM

quote:
The Koch brothers, anti-tax activist Grover Norquist and some of the nation's largest power companies have backed efforts in recent months to roll back state policies that favor green energy. The conservative luminaries have pushed campaigns in Kansas, North Carolina and Arizona, with the battle rapidly spreading to other states.

My guess. No, the Koch brothers would not be in favor of a federal government backed plan to displace fossil fuels. But I am sure you will harbor whatever doubts about that that you have.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-16-2016 3:21 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2702
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 42 of 43 (788552)
08-02-2016 7:30 AM


So im guessing temperatures up to 35 degrees Celsius in Siberia where it usually ranges form 10 degrees to 17, are nothing to worry about. Its just god lighting a fire under the Russians for not believing in him.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 43 of 43 (799264)
02-08-2017 3:58 PM


Repubs push new conspiracy
it seems the Republicans will latch on to anything to push their agenda. Even poorly written and researched articles form the Daily Mail. There is almost nothing in the article that supports the conclusions the author wants to reach. Their "whistleblower" doesn't even support their conclusions.

Here are a couple good analyses of the story and the facts and data behind it.
http://www.snopes.com/...noaa-scientists-climate-change-data

https://www.carbonbrief.org/...dence-global-temperature-rise

The main takeaway is this.

quote:
What David Rose fails to mention is that the new NOAA results have been validated by independent data from satellites, buoys and Argo floats and that many other independent groups, including Berkeley Earth and the UK’s Met Office Hadley Centre, get effectively the same results.
Rose’s claim that NOAA’s results “can never be verified” is patently incorrect, as we just published a paper independently verifying the most important part of NOAA’s results.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


    
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