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Author Topic:   Darwinism Cannot Explain The Peacock
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 69 of 165 (689161)
01-28-2013 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Arriba
01-28-2013 1:08 PM


Re: The story is not complete.
Sorry, but I'm not afraid to say, "I don't know."
Well hold on; You didn't say "I don't know". You said:
quote:
The theory of peacock sexual selection has been falsified.
and the title is:
quote:
Darwinism Cannot Explain The Peacock
And you've based this on one paper. You've fallen for the same confirmation bias that you're accusing all of biology of.
Your last paragraph is a case in point, where you seem to indicate that I must either provide some alternative theory of peacocks or find myself beholden to support the prevailing scientific fad of our times.
On the surface, evolution is not that complicated. We know animals come from other animals, and that they vary from generation to generation, and that not all of them reproduce. There really isn't any other way for the peacock tail to have emerged other than it evolving. Now, the specifics of exactly how it evolved might not currently be understood, but we don't have to throw away all of the knowledge we do have because of one piece that we can't currently explain in detail.
That's why his question is good: if you want to say that it didn't evolve, then how the hell else could it have gotten here?
Now, you also get into the whole "regression to the mean"... would you rather talk about that than the specifics on how the peacock tail might've evolve?
I must say, though, I admire your faith that somehow somewhere science will complete the story. It's touching in its naive simplicity.
Hey, don't be so condecending!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Arriba, posted 01-28-2013 1:08 PM Arriba has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 82 of 165 (689292)
01-29-2013 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Arriba
01-29-2013 11:19 AM


Re: The story is not complete.
To Blue Jay I say this: Don't think that just tightening the p value to 0.01 will be a panacea to the problems that plague science. We know that science is based on the logical fallacy called "affirming the consequent." Accordingly no positive find can ever be certain. You may go out and find a million black ravens, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of a white one that you just haven't found yet. Perhaps we can calculate the subjective probability that all ravens are black using Bayesian statistics, but that will never reach 100 percent.
So now that we have taken a look at the math let's return to the peacock train situation. Anyone with a brain can look at the peacock and seriously doubt that the theory of natural selection can actually explain that train that thing away. Maybe it can, but odds are that it can't. In order to use Bayesian statistics we must first know the a priori chance and since we don't know that we are required to make a guess. Yes, for those of you who think that science is some sort of infallible method, scientists spend most of their time guessing. Sorry to burst your bubble.
And yet, here we are communicating instantly over vast distances, because of the advances that this terribly inaccurate science gave us
It always amuses me when people talk about how bad science is on the internet
Let me throw the ball back in your court: What makes you think that truth exists? What makes you think that science can discover truth? What makes you think that your brain, which you believed evolved into the form it is in order to enable you to shag more women, is even capable of recognizing or comprehending truth?
Science put a man on the freakin' moon! It works. It doesn't matter if there some real underlying TRUTH or not.
Science yields results. It has improved the lives of countless people.
You should come down off your soapbox, swallow a little humility, and say "Thank You" to all the scientists for working as hard as they do.
Busting their balls about how inaccuarate and bad science is, is embarrasing to humanity. You should be ashamed of yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Arriba, posted 01-29-2013 11:19 AM Arriba has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Arriba, posted 01-29-2013 12:43 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 89 of 165 (689318)
01-29-2013 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Arriba
01-29-2013 12:43 PM


Re: Unprovable Postulates
I can't count the number of times I've heard that science has put a man on the moon and how the Internet wouldn't be possible without science. People roll their eyes and say how hard they laugh that someone uses their computer to say that science doesn't work.
On the other hand, I can't count the number of times I've heard that the Earth wouldn't exist without Jesus Christ, much less the Sun, and my body, and there would be no plants or animals to eat. They say that they laugh every time someone stands on the Earth and says they don't believe in God.
Although you may find it strange, I don't see any difference between their position and yours.
One difference is that I can point to the moon and then show you a video of man walking on it. We don't have any objective evidence that God even exists.
You are two sides of the same coin - a bunch of gibbering idiots insisting that the truths printed in your holy books are beyond questioning.
Bullshit. Nothing is beyond questioning. In fact, if you've ever taken even highschool level science classes, they should be showing you how to perform the experiments to test the hypotheses. That is the epitome of questioning. "You don't have to believe us, you can show it to yourself".
Egyptians build the pyramids, so I guess that means I need to believe in Ra, too, don't I?
Complete non-sequitor.
We don't have objective evidence that Ra even exists. You know that big shining thing in the night sky? That's the moon. Man walked on it because of science, something you claim doesn't work. Reality proves you wrong, you have to ignore it to maintain your position.
Here's a news flash for you - the most important reasons I have the computer I'm typing on are three:
1. Double-entry accounting.
2. Charles Babbage, mathematician, and his differential engine.
3. Six Sigma Statistical methods.
That's not people communicating instantly over vast distances throught the internet, which is something that came about because of science.
Or are you one of those people who thinks that math is science?
No, science uses math.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Arriba, posted 01-29-2013 12:43 PM Arriba has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 148 of 165 (690624)
02-14-2013 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Dr Adequate
02-14-2013 3:25 PM


Re: Unprovable Postulates
Well, I for one am always interested in mocking the egregiously wrong. Character flaw or hobby? --- you decide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2013 3:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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