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Author Topic:   The God Hypothesis
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1235 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 136 of 150 (693128)
03-11-2013 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Straggler
03-11-2013 8:53 AM


Re: ... the numbers are Groups related to the CNS, (nervous system)

Describe the pattern you see.

I thought we had agreed that it is not denied that the brain is a pattern seeking device, and we do not dispute that Nature does have a pattern to its existence?

The idea that one, Nature and mind), would reinforce the evolution of the other does not seem perposterous unless one willfully takes a position against the idea, as perhps you now have retracked your previous agreement.

What I have said, which I understood was not yet agreeable to you, is that a particular specific and repetitious pattern exists both in Nature and our mind.

That pattern I illustrated back a few pages inthis thread.
It shows how a similar pattern organized the Chemical Atoms which was the hypothetical pattern I proposed.

That hypothetical pattern has now been verified in our search for the Quantum Particles (now that Higgs is verified).

That is the Scientific Method, is it not:

Hypothesis, followed by a rigorous experiment based on assuming the hypothesis has merit, and the observed support of the evidence collected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Straggler, posted 03-11-2013 8:53 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 13038
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 137 of 150 (693131)
03-11-2013 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by kofh2u
03-08-2013 1:44 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:

Using that information, we construct various truths about Reality, and form an image of it.


The keyword there is "we". Objective images - i.e. images that a group of observers can agree on - are more reliable than individual images, which may be fantasies. Since there is no objective consensus about the "Holy Spirit", it can not be considered a "truth about reality". Rather, it is an individual fantasy.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by kofh2u, posted 03-08-2013 1:44 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by kofh2u, posted 03-16-2013 3:48 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13038
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 138 of 150 (693134)
03-11-2013 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by kofh2u
03-09-2013 9:17 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:

ringo writes:


How do you observe God?


Empirically.

God can be observed empiricially, through the use of our senses by which we make mental images called "thoughts" about "him."


"Empirically" implies consensus - i.e. that you can demonstrate your observation to others. If you can't, your mental images are just fantasies.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Eli
Member (Idle past 906 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 139 of 150 (693135)
03-11-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 11:19 AM


Re: ... the numbers are Groups related to the CNS, (nervous system)
Your chemical patterns image was wrong.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 11:19 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1235 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 140 of 150 (693137)
03-11-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by WarriorArchangel
03-10-2013 5:07 AM


Re: "elusive origin"

"God", is confusing and isolated until one finds in what religion the God is used. Not one Almighty.....
The Almighty, LORD God of hosts, HaShem, negates every God and its religion. That leaves the Almighty God of Israel....

Can you self proclaimed evolved, from you don't know from what, tell me of your elusive origin.....?

I could but Eli claims I already told people here many times and telling you, in spite you ask, is spamming the idea that 22 links back to the Apes by both Science and Genesis.

If you will not accept the Science explanation, and insist upon the Genesis story, just compare the correspondences between the 22 now extinct human species and the twenty-two names listed in the genealogy that claims kinds of men lived for thousands of years before they disappeared and were replaced by the next succeeding group.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


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Eli
Member (Idle past 906 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 141 of 150 (693139)
03-11-2013 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 12:19 PM


Re: "elusive origin"
Which part of the topic are you addressing with this post?

Buddhism or physics?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 12:19 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10195
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 142 of 150 (693144)
03-11-2013 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 11:19 AM


Re: ... the numbers are Groups related to the CNS, (nervous system)
Kof writes:

That pattern I illustrated back a few pages in this thread.

The triangles and squares pattern?

Did you construct those pictures yourself or source them from somewhere else?

Has this connection between science and Judaism been put forward by others or is it your own pet theory?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 11:19 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 366 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 143 of 150 (693146)
03-11-2013 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by kofh2u
03-10-2013 1:28 PM


Re: Who farted? God
All of the senses are used to empirically establish this "other entity" which sends us messages through those seven sevens, insisting that "I am."

First, I only know of 5 senses.

So are you saying that you've seen god and touched god? And you've also heard him and smelled him and tasted him?

Think about that carefully before you answer, so you don't sound insane.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by kofh2u, posted 03-10-2013 1:28 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 3:53 PM onifre has responded

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2678
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 144 of 150 (693158)
03-11-2013 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by ringo
03-11-2013 12:15 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
Ringo writes:

If you can't, your mental images are just fantasies.

This is spot on. Think of all the insane asylums in this country occupied by folks who have "thoughts" of a truly bizzare and batshit crazy nature. Some of which actually acted on these thoughts.
Stock piling weapons and sexually abusing minors to
Drowning children in bathtubs and the like for Jesus.

Texas seems to have a plethora of them.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 12:15 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1235 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 145 of 150 (693159)
03-11-2013 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by onifre
03-11-2013 1:45 PM


Re: God is everything that is not us...

First, I only know of 5 senses.

So are you saying that you've seen god and touched god? And you've also heard him and smelled him and tasted him?

Think about that carefully before you answer, so you don't sound insane.

"I am the Truth," is what I sense...

I use the Empirical Scientific Method to do that.
Empirical means we use our seven senses.

Yes, there are seven major senses, but there are also another dozen sublte senses not always referred to.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by onifre, posted 03-11-2013 1:45 PM onifre has responded

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onifre
Member (Idle past 366 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 146 of 150 (693170)
03-11-2013 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by kofh2u
03-11-2013 3:53 PM


Re: God is everything that is not us...
"I am the Truth," is what I sense...

A simple yes or no. I don't know what "I am the Truth" means. Let's keep it simple...

Do you see god, or hear god?

Yes, there are seven major senses

I know:

1) See
2) Hear
3) Smell
4) Touch
5) Taste

What else is there?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by kofh2u, posted 03-11-2013 3:53 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member
Posts: 2870
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 147 of 150 (693198)
03-12-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by onifre
03-11-2013 6:44 PM


Baloney
Apparently, these are the 7 major senses:

Sight
Smell
Touch
Taste
Hearing
Intuition
Equilibrium

But I don't think the last two are really accepted by anyone who isn't into some weird, imaginative stuff.

Any academic system seems to list the "major" senses as the ordinary 5 we all know and love.

I did see this, though. But again, it's not exactly scholarly:

Answers from teh interwebs writes:

More recently, scientists categorize the senses into two major groups. One group is the special senses, which are produced by highly localized sensory organs and include the senses of smell, taste, sight, hearing, and balance. The other group is the general senses, which are more widely distributed throughout the body and include such senses as touch, pressure, pain, temperature, and vibration.

Answers.com: What are the major senses?

That would make 10 senses. But a lot of them seem to me like they can be jammed under "touch."
Maybe they've been split because of different organs/systems in the body doing the sensing? I don't know enough about human anatomy to continue.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1235 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 148 of 150 (693512)
03-16-2013 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Stile
03-12-2013 12:19 PM


Re: Baloney

Baloney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently, these are the 7 major senses:
Sight
Smell
Touch
Taste
Hearing
Intuition
Equilibrium

But I don't think the last two are really accepted by anyone who isn't into some weird, imaginative stuff.

Hmmm.. pretty close.
Equilibrium really has an organ by which that sense is measured, in the ear.

Balance, a sense of Balance seems to transcend the physical position of the body, too, and is closely related to what we hear, both the Sense of Hearing and the Sense of Balance residing in the Ear.

These two also seem related to Musical Intelligence, which is one of the Seven Multiply Intelliegences listed by Howard Gardner in his now famous work on Intelligence.

I would argue against Intuition, which is actually one of the seven Freudian/Jungian Archetypes rather than a sense.

I would suggest to you that a priory, we all have a Sense of Time, (timing), as explained by Kant, and supported by the metabolic processes which adapt themselves to that timing.
Our Sense of Timing is evidenced in Jet Lag, and in all living things which function in regard to their Circadian Rhythms.

(Nevertheless, other source support the addition of 12 more very subtle senses which are more difficult to establish against arguments to the contrary. Hence, the rather soundenumeration of seven senses seems to make for a better case.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Stile, posted 03-12-2013 12:19 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1235 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 149 of 150 (693514)
03-16-2013 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ringo
03-11-2013 12:10 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...

Since there is no objective consensus about the "Holy Spirit", it can not be considered a "truth about reality". Rather, it is an individual fantasy.

The term "Holy Spirit" is open to definitions before one can say anything about the concept.

The concrete denotation, the actual meaning of the word "holy" is "separate."

In that sense, if one will accept the suggestion, for argument sake here, that Truth is an archetype that has evolved, experiential, in man, then it is separated de facto fantasies and false impressions, erroneous perspectives, and out right lies are separated from that "idea" of a source inside our mind that KNOWS the truth.

My argument for this source is that it refers to the Unconscious mind.

The argument I would make is that, the Unconscious mind is reconstructed genetically, and born again into the generation of the living.
It is inaccessible to our Conscious mind,but is wide awake and interacting in our own affairs and the affairs of those around us all the time,... unbeknownst to us, consciously.

It is that ancient of the ancients to which Daniel and Revelation refer.
It is the Good Shepherd in our lives evidenced by emotions and instincts that come into our consciousness unbidden, as messengers (angels) who interject ideas into our dreams and our thinking as if from some outside source.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by ringo, posted 03-11-2013 12:10 PM ringo has responded

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ringo
Member
Posts: 13038
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 150 of 150 (693580)
03-18-2013 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by kofh2u
03-16-2013 3:48 PM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...
kofh2u writes:

The argument I would make is that, the Unconscious mind is reconstructed genetically, and born again into the generation of the living.


Nobody here is arguing against the idea of an unconscious mind. However, there is no evidence that it has any relation to the idea of "God".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by kofh2u, posted 03-16-2013 3:48 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
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