Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 109 (8738 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 04-26-2017 5:27 PM
403 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jayhawker Soule
Post Volume:
Total: 805,391 Year: 9,997/21,208 Month: 3,084/2,674 Week: 500/961 Day: 113/117 Hour: 2/2

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
56
7
8910Next
Author Topic:   The God Hypothesis
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 91 of 150 (692589)
03-05-2013 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by ringo
03-05-2013 11:13 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth

You have that backwards. "True" is only true within a given system. That's why black people tend to score poorly on "white" IQ tests - because what's "true" in the white culture is not necessarily true in theirs.

My claim remains that it is you who are backwards in every post because it is you who are wrongm, but who believes there is nothing soi sharply clear that a little argument can not cloud it up.

Not every IQ Test is written.
And such Tests that do not effectively measusre what is the True responses that one might make to them just fail to discern the Intelligence that exists.

You own example of a marroned island make my point quite well.
The puzzle of learnuing to exist presents the "questions" which will measure how intelligent the survivor/dead man was.

The movie Pi is a good example here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 03-05-2013 11:13 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Straggler, posted 03-05-2013 12:12 PM kofh2u has responded
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 03-06-2013 11:10 AM kofh2u has responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10192
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 92 of 150 (692595)
03-05-2013 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 11:31 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth
There are many things which wouldn't get a single point on an IQ test but which manage to survive just fine.......

But what does any of this have to do with the topic of there being some sort of startling equivalence between concepts in Buddhism and those of modern physics?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 11:31 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 1:51 PM Straggler has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 93 of 150 (692601)
03-05-2013 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Straggler
03-05-2013 12:12 PM


... on topic...

But what does any of this have to do with the topic of there being some sort of startling equivalence between concepts in Buddhism and those of modern physics?

I think it could not be avoided on a thread titled, "The God Hypothesis," since Christian said, "I am the truth, the way, and the life?"

The argument that Gell-mann suggested a connection with religion also tends to bring us to examine how that might be intuitively suggested to him, though he assumed it was akin to Buddhism.

But, if our God is Truth, as certainky our species seems to have been bowing down to it, then the Father of all Truth is the ever unfolding Reality which sires it in every Frame into the future.

So, in this sense, The God Hypothesis is that Truth is our light into the world through the Science of Empiricism.

But, it is also interesting to the theologian that Intuition has discovered a Pattern to our thinking which scripture also brings to our attention, in regard to the way the "tabernacle" where we meet this "god," or Truth resides:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Straggler, posted 03-05-2013 12:12 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Eli, posted 03-05-2013 2:09 PM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 97 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 6:45 AM kofh2u has responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 873 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 94 of 150 (692605)
03-05-2013 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 1:51 PM


Re: ... on topic...
Your picture and whatever non sequitors attached to it have neither to do with Buddhism or physics.

Can you take your discussion with yourself elsewhere?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 1:51 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 95 of 150 (692606)
03-05-2013 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Straggler
02-25-2013 11:28 AM


...ironic or subtle religious association...?

Really? Was he? Where are you getting that from? I have read that Gell-Man's reference to Buddhism was intended as ironic.

Hmmm...

The better insight that Gell-mann might have referred us to would have been the Jewish recognition of this pattern which the later Kabbalists used to represent their arrangement of the Great Name.

Perhaps Gell-mann was subtly referring o Judaism since he no doubt had a subliminal memory of having had seen this arrangement before, albeit, upside down?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Straggler, posted 02-25-2013 11:28 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Eli, posted 03-06-2013 12:22 AM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 98 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 6:55 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 873 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 96 of 150 (692629)
03-06-2013 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 2:24 PM


Re: ...ironic or subtle religious association...?
Whay does that have to do with subject? You are just imagining some link between what you want to talk about and what the subject is.

Do you have any evidence of what you are claiming?

Of course not.

Go muse elsewhere. The things you imagine are not relevant to this thread.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 2:24 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10192
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 97 of 150 (692642)
03-06-2013 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 1:51 PM


Re: ... on topic...
Kof writes:

The argument that Gell-mann suggested a connection with religion......

What connection with religion are you suggesting? Be specific. Do you have anything beyond vague hand waving to support these assertions of yours?

Anyway for what little it matters I'm pretty sure that Gell-Mann was an atheist.

quote:
"So we donít have to assume these principles as separate metaphysical postulates. They follow from the fundamental theory. They are what we call emergent properties. You donít need something more to get something more. Thatís what emergence means. Life can emerge from physics and chemistry, plus a lot of accidents. The human mind can arise from neurobiology, and a lot of accidents. The way the chemical bond arises from physics and certain accidents. Doesnít diminish the importance of these subjects, to know that they follow from more fundamental things, plus accidents. Thatís a general rule, and itís critically important to realize that. You donít need something more in order to get something more. People keep asking that when they read my book, The Quark and the Jaguar, and they say Ďisnít there something more beyond what you have there?í Presumably they mean something supernatural. Anyway, there isnít. (laughs) You donít need something more to explain something more."

Murray Gell-Mann, Beauty and truth in physics: Murray Gell-Mann on TED.com (2007), Ted.com.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 1:51 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 10:22 AM Straggler has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10192
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 98 of 150 (692643)
03-06-2013 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 2:24 PM


Re: ...ironic or subtle religious association...?
That is amazing. Let's sum up your latest findings in our handy comparison table:

Quantum Theory SaysKofh2u Says.
In physics, the Eightfold Way is a term coined by American physicist Murray Gell-Mann for a theory organizing subatomic baryons and mesons into octets. The Eightfold Way may be understood in modern terms as a consequence of flavor symmetries between various kinds of quarks. Since the strong nuclear force affects quarks the same way regardless of their flavor, replacing one flavor of quark with another in a hadron should not alter its mass very much. Mathematically, this replacement may be described by elements of the SU(3) group. The octets and other arrangements are representations of this group.I can group things together by drawing triangles round them

The comparison is startling isn't it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 2:24 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 99 of 150 (692655)
03-06-2013 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Straggler
03-06-2013 6:45 AM


Kof writes:
The argument that Gell-mann suggested a connection with religion......

Strang:
What connection with religion are you suggesting?

The one which Gell-mann referred to..?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 6:45 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 10:34 AM kofh2u has responded
 Message 102 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 3:42 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10192
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 100 of 150 (692656)
03-06-2013 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by kofh2u
03-06-2013 10:22 AM


The number 8?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 10:22 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 4:17 PM Straggler has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 101 of 150 (692663)
03-06-2013 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by kofh2u
03-05-2013 11:31 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth
kofh2u writes:

You own example of a marroned island make my point quite well.


What if the castaway only thought that he was on an island but he was really on a peninsula and there was a four-lane super-highway only a day's march away. His lack of knowledge/understanding of the True Ultimate Ideal Reality would have no effect on how he lived his life in the reality that he thought he was in. The True Ultimate Ideal Reality is irrelevant to his reality.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by kofh2u, posted 03-05-2013 11:31 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 3:46 PM ringo has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 102 of 150 (692691)
03-06-2013 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by kofh2u
03-06-2013 10:22 AM


The God Hypothesis...?
E8 Lie algebra groups represent the best developed theory of continuous symmetry of mathematical objects and structures, which makes them indispensable tools for many parts of contemporary mathematics, as well as for modern theoretical physics. They provide a natural framework for analysing the continuous symmetries of differential equations.

Many times we recognize that the physical world can be described by the mathematical/logical intelligence inherent as one of our multiple intelligences.
We use Logical/Mathematical Intelligence to understand the external world.
Usually, we obeserve the external world and then develop the mathematics.

What we see in the case of Gellmann is that the opposite or reverse condition prevailed.
He used the inherent presence of this Mathematical Intelligence in order to better observe the external world.

This triangulation of the physical conceptions we observe has been noted by others over the ages.
In ancient times all of matter was assigned to the four elements. We now know most matter is baryonic matter. And we now know that the numbers of the particles of baryonic matter form a Tetractys!

"
The Tetractys represented the organization of space:
1. the first row represented zero-dimensions (a point)
2. the second row represented one-dimension (a line of two points)
3. the third row represented two-dimensions (a plane defined by a triangle of three points)
4. the fourth row represented three-dimensions (a tetrahedron defined by four points)
Recall that the first four planes of existence: space-time, subatomic particles, atoms and molecules can each be symbolized by a point, line, triangle and tetrahedron. Again, this is an example of how the smallest part contains the whole."

http://dream-prophecy.blogspot.com/...-of-design-part-7.html

The Kabbahists (to whom I referred, in that illustration of the whole pattern that seems to be required of us as organize our concept of the Real World such as in Chemistry and now Elemental Particle Physics) also expressed "the creator of the material world" this way:

Buck Fuller called this symbol "Truth:"

Then Christ in 32AD tells us he "is the Truth, the way, and the life."
He also says that even the hairs on our head are numbered.

What we are seeing in QM today is supporting evidence for this God Hypothesis that was suggested by the OP of this thread.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by kofh2u, posted 03-06-2013 10:22 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 103 of 150 (692692)
03-06-2013 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by ringo
03-06-2013 11:10 AM


Re: Intelligence IS Truth, fantasies are perceptions...

The True Ultimate Ideal Reality is irrelevant to his reality.

There is no "Ultimate Reality."

There is only what actually exists, Reality.
Everything else that we might form our own perceptions about is mere fantasy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ringo, posted 03-06-2013 11:10 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 03-07-2013 11:31 AM kofh2u has responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 104 of 150 (692693)
03-06-2013 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Spiritual Anarchist
02-02-2013 8:41 PM


... The hypothesis is that God is a number (8)

Any God Hypothesis would have to redefine God outside of Mythological Constructs completely.

The God Hypothesis
that states the Judaeo-Christian God Designed the Universe. In their God Hypothesis this "God" is a person.

We must not confuse our conception of God, mathematically, with what god actually is.
The Chgristians are right in telling us that we are not privy to a direct contact with Gad, the Father of the Cosmos.
We must utilize an intermediator between our mind and what we can fathom of this God.

The "God Hypothesis" I present here is that Truth, in the form of Mathematical/Logical insights is our mediator.

Edited by kofh2u, : typo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Spiritual Anarchist, posted 02-02-2013 8:41 PM Spiritual Anarchist has not yet responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1202 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 105 of 150 (692697)
03-06-2013 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Straggler
03-06-2013 10:34 AM


... the number is 8?

The number 8?

Yep,...
Eight (8) is the number of God:

H+V+H+I = 5+6+5+10 = 26 = 2+6 = 8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 10:34 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2013 4:51 PM kofh2u has responded

    
Prev1
...
56
7
8910Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017