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Author Topic:   Evolution and the seven Christian hypothesis on Creation ought all be taught
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11352
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 61 of 100 (691022)
02-19-2013 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by kofh2u
02-18-2013 6:43 PM


Re: In the beginning of time is temporal indeed.
At least you atheistic bible bashers are now reduced to minutia and trivial subjective and personal criticism of Genesis.

Uh, no... not really. Your whole approach to it is bad. Here's how you're doing it: "If I assume that Genesis is correct, and that it matches what I think science says, then what do the words have to mean to hold up those assuptions?"

Its just bad theology. You're lying to yourself to uphold a delusion. Honesty is the best policy; The ancient jews were not writing about modern cosmology, they were creating their own mythical stories and trying to make sense of the world as they saw it from a bronze-age perspective.

And I'm not even an athiest nor a bible basher.

But don't pretend that makes the reader right and the bible wrong.

And that's what it ultimately comes down to: You are simply unable to accept that the Bible got something wrong.

Can you even admit one tiny error anywhere? How about Leviticus saying insects have four legs? Come on, its just a little slip of the tounge, right?

You can't, can you? That's gonna be your biggest problem in finding a respectable theology.


This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9551
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 62 of 100 (691095)
02-20-2013 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by kofh2u
02-17-2013 7:00 AM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
our own personal preferemce for the Six Kingdom System is a subject choice which might even be appropriate to your vocation related to the taxonomy of Biology.

Let's assume just for argument that the preference for more than two kingdoms is a choice. Why do bacteria and yeast belong in the plant kingdom? That choice simply cannot be justified. Where did anaerobic organisms belong?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by kofh2u, posted 02-17-2013 7:00 AM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 6:55 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 66 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 7:02 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 906 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 63 of 100 (691121)
02-20-2013 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by kofh2u
02-18-2013 12:05 PM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
Yes, it means the "first" life to sprout on earth...

No, it doesn't. You keep qualifying the definition with the addition "first life." Stop adding "life." It does not mean "first life." It means the simplest of vegetation occurring on dry ground.

It is not talking about the first proto-cells, which, btw, bacteria are not.

So, let's go back over some seventh grade stuff.

bacteria are not plants.
The first simple cells were not bacteria.
Plants are not the first forms of life.

Got it? I hope so. A measure of intelligence is the ability for an animal to learn and adjust their behavior accordingly.

If you don't have the ability to learn, you are in deep shit.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by kofh2u, posted 02-18-2013 12:05 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 6:49 PM Eli has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 64 of 100 (691279)
02-21-2013 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Eli
02-20-2013 12:30 PM


Strong's dictionary for "deshe"...

It does not mean "first life." It means the simplest of vegetation occurring on dry ground.

You can SEE what it says as well as I do:

"The FIRST sprouts of the Earth"....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Eli, posted 02-20-2013 12:30 PM Eli has responded

Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 65 of 100 (691281)
02-21-2013 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by NoNukes
02-20-2013 9:19 AM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?

Let's assume just for argument that the preference for more than two kingdoms is a choice.

Now that is big of you guys, to let us use the science that explains what te Book of Genesis means by referring to the Two Kingdom System.
Apparently you just favor the six kingdom system, but all six have there legitimate place for use as the yellow information inthe legend will confirm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by NoNukes, posted 02-20-2013 9:19 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 66 of 100 (691283)
02-21-2013 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by NoNukes
02-20-2013 9:19 AM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
Why do bacteria and yeast belong in the plant kingdom? That choice simply cannot be justified. Where did anaerobic organisms belong?

The Chart below illustrates how the bacteria that first appeared on earth fits into the Plant Kingdom. Its a science thingee some just don't understand:

But all that is required here is that the Bible is not wrong in stating thatthe Plant kingdom appeared first, followed by the Animal Kingdom some 200,000 years later, as plants produced the necessary Oxygen the supported their respiratio.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by NoNukes, posted 02-20-2013 9:19 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Eli, posted 02-21-2013 10:08 PM kofh2u has not yet responded
 Message 71 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2013 11:29 PM kofh2u has responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 67 of 100 (691286)
02-21-2013 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Dr Adequate
02-19-2013 12:33 AM


Re: In the beginning of time is temporal indeed.

Why don't you go see if you can convince some YECs of your interpretation of the Bible?

The way the Dialectic works is that You bash the YEC Theist with your science ridiculing which is the Anti-theist that pushes veryone into the Synthesis that is neither your argument against Genesis nor there argument for it.

As they realize that I am defending the Bible while telling you that at the moment of the Big Bang, the earth, the sun, the stars, the galaxies, etc were all created as far as the matter for them appearing, but they would take form over billins of years.

We know that Genesis was inferring this from the second sentence in Genesis:

The hot spinning molten matter that was to coalesce into the planet Earth WAS without form:

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of molten matter and gases), and void: (not yet valid as a sphere- i.e.; an accretion disk), and darkness: [choshek: obscurity] was upon the face (of the disk) of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of the thick ring].
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.; of these transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2013 12:33 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 72 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2013 11:42 PM kofh2u has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5268
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 68 of 100 (691292)
02-21-2013 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by kofh2u
02-21-2013 8:02 PM


Re: In the beginning of time is temporal indeed.
Bullshit.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 8:02 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

    
Eli
Member (Idle past 906 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 69 of 100 (691298)
02-21-2013 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by kofh2u
02-21-2013 6:49 PM


Re: Strong's dictionary for "deshe"...
I can see what it says, as plainly as anyone else.

You don't know the difference between "first sprouts of the earth. tender grass, tender herb" and "first life"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 6:49 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
Eli
Member (Idle past 906 days)
Posts: 274
Joined: 08-24-2012


Message 70 of 100 (691299)
02-21-2013 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by kofh2u
02-21-2013 7:02 PM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
The "scinece thingee" that some people just don't understand?

It's called "self correction." It is 2013, not 1893. We don't use science once it is found to be in error.

http://www.amazon.com/...nce-Ideas-Seemed-Time/dp/1904332498.

Plants did not oxygenate the earth, not did they come before animals.


This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9551
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 71 of 100 (691310)
02-21-2013 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by kofh2u
02-21-2013 7:02 PM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
The Chart below illustrates how the bacteria that first appeared on earth fits into the Plant Kingdom. Its a science thingee some just don't understand:

What kind of stupid game are you playing? Your chart does not show any bacteria. I'm a fool for paying this bunk any attention. That folly ends now.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 7:02 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by kofh2u, posted 02-22-2013 1:13 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15929
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 72 of 100 (691312)
02-21-2013 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by kofh2u
02-21-2013 8:02 PM


Re: In the beginning of time is temporal indeed.
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.; of these transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])

Hold on. I thought that we'd already established that when Genesis talks about water, it means people. But now it means "transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun" as well?

And I suppose there may even be instances where it means water.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by kofh2u, posted 02-21-2013 8:02 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by kofh2u, posted 02-22-2013 1:07 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 73 of 100 (691463)
02-22-2013 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Dr Adequate
02-21-2013 11:42 PM


Re: In the beginning of time is temporal indeed.

Hold on. I thought that we'd already established that when Genesis talks about water, it means people. But now it means "transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun" as well?

And I suppose there may even be instances where it means water.

... but as you suggest, the literary arts do use the figurative concept of flowing through" in regard to a flood of peoples in the Noah story.

A search of scrioture will show that this idea of a "flood" of troops or people has been used by the bible writers before, elsewhere.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2013 11:42 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-22-2013 1:44 PM kofh2u has responded

    
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 1234 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 74 of 100 (691465)
02-22-2013 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by NoNukes
02-21-2013 11:29 PM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
Cyanobacteria
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientific classification
Domain: Bacteria

Phylum: Cyanobacteria

Cyanobacteria (/saɪˌŠnoʊbŠkˈtɪəriə/), also known as blue-green bacteria, blue-green algae, and Cyanophyta, is a phylum of bacteria that obtain their energy through photosynthesis.[3] The name "cyanobacteria" comes from the color of the bacteria (Greek: κυανός (kyanˇs) = blue).

You are not a fool, since it is important that you try me on all this stuff in order to realize that I have done the homework and doubled checked all these possible criticisms that might show that everything does pan out.
As you follow along and try to "catch me" on making unfounded assertions, I have the opportunity to demonstrate the point of view i have choosen to take on many possible choices that might be available in some case of another.
But it becomes clear that consistently chose the word use and facts that tend to make scripture conform with the Truth.

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by NoNukes, posted 02-21-2013 11:29 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-22-2013 1:22 PM kofh2u has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15929
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 75 of 100 (691468)
02-22-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by kofh2u
02-22-2013 1:13 PM


Re: Is this what you propose to teach?
Cyanobacteria (/saɪˌŠnoʊbŠkˈtɪəriə/), also known as blue-green bacteria, blue-green algae, and Cyanophyta, is a phylum of bacteria that obtain their energy through photosynthesis.[3] The name "cyanobacteria" comes from the color of the bacteria (Greek: κυανός (kyanˇs) = blue).

Ah, I think I see where you've gone wrong.

Cyanobacteria are sometimes called "blue-green algae", but they're not actually algae phylogenetically. They're prokaryotes, algae are eukaryotes. Where that chart says "algae" it does not include cyanobacteria according to (a) the people who made the chart (b) any living scientist you care to name. Calling them algae is about on a par with calling a whale a fish.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by kofh2u, posted 02-22-2013 1:13 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
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