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Author Topic:   Wasteful Intelligent Design
onifre
Member (Idle past 418 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 16 of 43 (693865)
03-20-2013 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2013 10:30 AM


Assuming the designer didn't use natural processes...

Well then, it still doesn't seem designed for us. The designer seems to really be into stars and watching them expand, die out or explode.

You really think Earth is the only planet with highly intelligent life on it?

I struggle with it. There is no reason why it shouldn't given that the universe has all the elements for it. But the harshness of the universe and the unlimited amount of ways life wouldn't be able to survive, couple that with this planet where we know life exists and the limited time it's been here and the extinction hurdles it was LUCKY to get past, I see basic life itself beening hard to survive let alone getting to the point in the evolutionary tree where you find intelligence. One less meteor hitting the Earth and we wouldn't be here.

Basic microbial life I expect is abundant. Things that swim are less but probably likely. Anything after that I see as very limited, if it exists at all.

I certainly don't believe if there is other intelligence that it's visited us here on Earth.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2013 10:30 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9723
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 17 of 43 (693869)
03-20-2013 1:52 PM


The universe was created to be a storage unit for dark energy. The project was quite successful, but the byproduct of all of that non-metal material (hydrogen and helium) used to build the thing turns out to be a little bit of carbon based side products that don't seem to affect the battery in any significant way.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


    
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 1156 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 18 of 43 (693873)
03-20-2013 3:59 PM


I have a horrible feeling my initial point is making me look a bit bad,
I love pointless excess, in fact I revel in it - what with there being no after life and all that I strive to carve a little nichenof heaven out of everyday for myself. Further more I am in no way worried about the excess or "waste" in the universe, watching programs about stars exploding and what not on Discovery is a most relaxing way to spend and evening.

I'm loving the thoughtful and funny comments on this topic, but I'm still dying to hear an oppsition to it by a creationist or ID person, I reckon this argument kinda knocks their whole position flat on it's ass. I could simplify the whole agreement down to "why the hell does Cruithne exist?"

(The obvious answer is that it's an essential part in The Fly Spagetti Monsters wrist watch)


Reason > Belief

Even if we dont agree find me on Facebook, always happy to have new friends


Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by NoNukes, posted 03-20-2013 6:17 PM GrimSqueaker has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9723
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 19 of 43 (693897)
03-20-2013 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by GrimSqueaker
03-20-2013 3:59 PM


I reckon this argument kinda knocks their whole position flat on it's ass.

It is impossible to make creationism sound so silly that a Creationist will abandon it.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-20-2013 3:59 PM GrimSqueaker has not yet responded

    
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 1098 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 20 of 43 (693910)
03-20-2013 8:36 PM


Grim,

You honestly believe that your incredible realization that you can't understand the motives of a super-natural designer is a game changer to creationists? Oh brother.

Why would a a designer use so much space? Why doesn't he just create everything for life inside a tiny ball which only exists in a tiny sphere smaller than an atom. Well, maybe it is the size of an atom to a designer.

You would think the fact that a universe exists at all would be enough to convince you that SOMETHING of order and complexity and knowledge exists. What kind of life view do you have that says chaos and uncontrolled randomness would produce things? Do you think that physical laws are just the result of purposelessness?

I believe more amazing than all of the use of space, is the ability of some to ignore a creator whilst viewing a giant creation.


  
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 1156 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


(1)
Message 21 of 43 (693911)
03-20-2013 8:42 PM


Chaos is a awesome and fabulous thing - I freaking love chaos, why is that not good enough?

I see nothing can't be explained by laws and chance and if there was a designer he left
No signature or trade mark - maybe he isn't very proud.

And actually scale wasn't my problem, unneeded excess is -
If humans on earth r the end goal all we need is a moon, a star and somewhere to live, if it's created by magic and not laws then why have anything else?
Of course if laws r involved instead why would we need a creator


Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-20-2013 8:55 PM GrimSqueaker has not yet responded

    
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 1098 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 22 of 43 (693912)
03-20-2013 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by GrimSqueaker
03-20-2013 8:42 PM


Yea, I get that you can't see anything that couldn't be explained simply by laws and chance.

What's hard to understand is why you think there are laws.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-20-2013 8:42 PM GrimSqueaker has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-20-2013 10:52 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15946
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 23 of 43 (693933)
03-20-2013 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Bolder-dash
03-20-2013 8:55 PM


What's hard to understand is why you think there are laws.

You know this "science" thing we keep telling you about? Well, it has to do with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-20-2013 8:55 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-21-2013 4:09 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 1156 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 24 of 43 (693957)
03-21-2013 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
03-20-2013 10:52 PM


Boom Good Sir, I believe you got "Boom" there!

(it's a good thing, means you rock)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-20-2013 10:52 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 4:43 AM GrimSqueaker has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4872
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 25 of 43 (693958)
03-21-2013 4:13 AM


Why did this God give me asthma? All it does is ruin my golf game.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 1098 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 26 of 43 (693959)
03-21-2013 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by GrimSqueaker
03-21-2013 4:09 AM


The Dr. A theory of denial
You mean you think science is the explanation for why there is science?

Holy Toledo.

And you wonder why you look up at the stars and can't understand it all?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-21-2013 4:09 AM GrimSqueaker has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by GrimSqueaker, posted 03-21-2013 7:14 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 28 by NoNukes, posted 03-21-2013 11:34 AM Bolder-dash has responded
 Message 29 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-21-2013 12:04 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 1156 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 27 of 43 (693962)
03-21-2013 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bolder-dash
03-21-2013 4:43 AM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
Science is the route to which we can best understand everything, belief is a
Dead end "it is because it is - end"

reason logical and scientific exploration is the only reliable path to discovering more about our world.

In the battle of Science VS Belief science has won in every arena;
Germ Theroy VS Demonology
Cosmology VS Flat Earth and orbiting sun
Lightening VS The Anger of Gods
Shall I go on?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 4:43 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9723
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 28 of 43 (694015)
03-21-2013 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bolder-dash
03-21-2013 4:43 AM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
You mean you think science is the explanation for why there is science?

Does this really appear to be what anyone has said? Dr. Adequate has suggested that we know that there are laws because science has uncovered them. GrimSqueaker agrees. No one has attempted to say why the laws exist. Then you come up with "science explains why there is science" which addresses some further question that also has yet to come up here.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 4:43 AM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 1:35 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15946
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 29 of 43 (694018)
03-21-2013 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bolder-dash
03-21-2013 4:43 AM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
You mean you think science is the explanation for why there is science?

No, that's not what I meant. That would be why I said something else.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Bolder-dash, posted 03-21-2013 4:43 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 1098 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 30 of 43 (694046)
03-21-2013 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by NoNukes
03-21-2013 11:34 AM


Re: The Dr. A theory of denial
No one has attempted to say WHY the law exist?

But the question I asked was WHY DO LAWS EXIST!! What's more is I even wrote it in language I assumed (my bad) even Dr. A could understand, when I wrote, why do you think there are laws? As opposed to no laws see? Get it?

Who asked how do we know laws exist??

And you guys want to find the deeper meaning in life? With these comprehension skills? Good luck.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by NoNukes, posted 03-21-2013 11:34 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-21-2013 2:11 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 33 by Taq, posted 03-21-2013 2:40 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 03-21-2013 10:53 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

  
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