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Author Topic:   Belief in God is scientific.
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4521
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 196 of 262 (695755)
04-09-2013 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Pressie
04-09-2013 6:52 AM


Pressie writes:

Someone can and will win it every now and then. Hopefully it will be me next time around!

Yup, that's how the fallacy works.
[and very successfully too]


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Pressie, posted 04-09-2013 6:52 AM Pressie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Pressie, posted 04-09-2013 7:07 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1549
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 197 of 262 (695756)
04-09-2013 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Tangle
04-09-2013 6:55 AM


Yip, tomorrow night again. I hope and believe that I'm going to win it; along with 40 million others having the same thoughts for and about themselves.

Chances are it won't be won at all.

Edited by Pressie, : Changed whole reply


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2013 6:55 AM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Ossat
Member (Idle past 1241 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 03-29-2013


Message 198 of 262 (695761)
04-09-2013 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Tangle
04-05-2013 9:25 AM


If your doctor tells you that he's sent the lump he took out of your testicle to the lab and it's confirmed his earlier diagnosis of cancer, do you believe him or do you tell him he's making it up because he's read a book and listened to an expert?

Do you think that when the next satellite gets put into space, it'll be done from first principles or do you think the designer looked up the trajectory based on what they already know?

I suspect you reserve your scepticism for evolutionary science only don't you?

I may trust in what my doctor say, but couldn't say they will always be right, regardless how much they have studied they are still people and have biases and prejudices.

Of course experience helps in accuracy, not argument against this

But when it comes to evolutionary or any issue relating distant past I become very skeptic as many things (like origin of life) cannot be reproduced by experiment an so leave space for biased conclusions of the researcher according to his/her own mindsets. science may be very accurate, but is still practiced by subjective people

I was convinced by being taught it, just like I was happy to 'believe' Ohms Law. But I know that I can test both if I need too. So can you.

You are happy to 'believe' what you were taught. You are not the only one who believes things, everybody does, but many don't want to recognize that they consider something to be true as long as they believe in it, rather than have a real evidence to support their theories


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Tangle, posted 04-05-2013 9:25 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2013 8:51 AM Ossat has not yet responded
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 Message 207 by Taq, posted 04-09-2013 5:33 PM Ossat has not yet responded

    
Ossat
Member (Idle past 1241 days)
Posts: 41
Joined: 03-29-2013


Message 199 of 262 (695769)
04-09-2013 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by jar
04-05-2013 10:44 AM


Re: faith is not needed
Evolution is a fact; that is a conclusion based on all of the evidence

That is a conclusion rather based on the biases of the evolutionists, that's all it is

Well, I've actually read the Bible and there is nothing in there to support Adam and Eve sinning or God cursing man such that Jesus would have to be sacrificed as a blood offering.

Romans 5: 12-15

{5:12} Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the
world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,
for that all have sinned: {5:13} (For until the law sin was in
the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
{5:14} Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of
Adamís transgression, who is the figure of him that was to
come. {5:15} But not as the offence, so also [is] the free
gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much
more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by
one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Jesus was born a man, therefore Jesus was going to die.

It really is that simple but that should be discussed in another thread.

But in the Bible the stories tell two different and mutually exclusive tales about how God created all living things anyway

So, nothing of God in Jesus, was just a human and only a human?

The second story in Genesis is not meant to be a sequence of events in the order they happened, like the first. There's not contradiction


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 04-05-2013 10:44 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 208 by Taq, posted 04-09-2013 5:34 PM Ossat has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4521
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 200 of 262 (695771)
04-09-2013 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Ossat
04-09-2013 8:18 AM


Ossat writes:

Of course experience helps in accuracy, not argument against this

But when it comes to evolutionary ......

Like I said, you reserve your scientific scepticism for evolutionary theory - now be honest, the ONLY reason you do that is because it contradicts a religious belief that you have isn't it?

You are happy to 'believe' what you were taught. You are not the only one who believes things, everybody does, but many don't want to recognize that they consider something to be true as long as they believe in it, rather than have a real evidence to support their theories

I am happy to 'believe' what I am taught when it is standard and settled science and I'm being told it by someone that I have a reason to trust. If I am in any doubt, what is being taught can be checked by looking at the evidence for myself [which I have done, have you?].

That's why it's called science; it's backed by evidence.

random quote:

The Theory of Evolution is the central organizing theory of biology...... It is no more controversial in scientific circles than gravity or electricity is. . . . . There is no scientific dispute that evolution has occurred and continues to occur; this is why evolution is regarded as a scientific fact.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Ossat, posted 04-09-2013 8:18 AM Ossat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 201 of 262 (695777)
04-09-2013 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Ossat
04-09-2013 8:40 AM


Re: faith is not needed
I'm sorry but thee is so much wrong in your post that it is just laughable and simply makes God look ****** and Jesus just a farce, but absolutely none of it is on topic for this thread, but I would be happy to educate you in appropriate threads.

But Evolution is not based on biases but honesty.

Your quotemine from Romans has nothing to do with either Adam or Eve and no where in it is Adsam of Eve mentioned.

And yes, if there was any god to Jesus while he was here on Earth then the whole story is a worthless sham and farce.

Start threads and I will gladly teach you.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Ossat, posted 04-09-2013 8:40 AM Ossat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12901
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 202 of 262 (695801)
04-09-2013 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 3:43 PM


divermike1974 writes:

... but those fallacies relate to the practice of the scientific method, not religious faith.


Of course the belief in a flat earth at the center of the universe did come from religious belief, not science, but the scientific method weeded out those bad hypotheses. The belief in God was never based on the scientific method so there was never any possibility of correcting it through science.

divermike1974 writes:

I can give you dozens of examples of isolated populations believing in a deity but only a few examples of European idiots believing the world was flat.


Galileo's ghost is eager to hear your list.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by divermike1974, posted 04-08-2013 3:43 PM divermike1974 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-09-2013 12:57 PM ringo has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15734
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 203 of 262 (695813)
04-09-2013 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by ringo
04-09-2013 12:06 PM


Of course the belief in a flat earth at the center of the universe did come from religious belief, not science ...

Usually from neither. It came from "common sense".

Galileo's ghost is eager to hear your list.

The people who persecuted Galileo did not any of them believe that the Earth was flat.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 04-09-2013 12:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by ringo, posted 04-10-2013 12:10 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15734
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 204 of 262 (695815)
04-09-2013 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Ossat
04-09-2013 8:18 AM


But when it comes to evolutionary or any issue relating distant past I become very skeptic as many things (like origin of life) cannot be reproduced by experiment an so leave space for biased conclusions of the researcher according to his/her own mindsets. science may be very accurate, but is still practiced by subjective people

The people don't matter so long as the science is "very accurate". Roses don't smell any the worse for having been grown in manure.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Ossat, posted 04-09-2013 8:18 AM Ossat has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15734
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 205 of 262 (695817)
04-09-2013 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by divermike1974
04-09-2013 4:18 AM


There are 12 fundamental particles that make make up all the matter in the universe 6 leptons and 6 quarks. Instead of me naming the ones you are talking about why don't you name them and show where they are located within all the matter in the universe?
please remember the definition of fundamental and also that they have to present in the actual matter in the universe as it stands and not to have once existed as part of a process i.e. That they have not been victim to particle annihilation.

Well, how about we start with the photon?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 4:18 AM divermike1974 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 2:56 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1382 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 206 of 262 (695835)
04-09-2013 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Dr Adequate
04-09-2013 1:06 PM


Nearly mate but a photon has no mass therefore it isn't present in any of the matter within the universe.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-09-2013 1:06 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-09-2013 6:52 PM divermike1974 has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 6039
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 207 of 262 (695850)
04-09-2013 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Ossat
04-09-2013 8:18 AM


But when it comes to evolutionary or any issue relating distant past I become very skeptic . . .

Unless it is written by a goathearder from 500 BC who claims to speak for a deity, then you swallow it whole without even looking at the evidence.

You are happy to 'believe' what you were taught. You are not the only one who believes things, everybody does, but many don't want to recognize that they consider something to be true as long as they believe in it, rather than have a real evidence to support their theories

29+ evidences for evolution:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

There is mountains of evidence supporting the theory of evolution.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Ossat, posted 04-09-2013 8:18 AM Ossat has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 6039
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 208 of 262 (695851)
04-09-2013 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Ossat
04-09-2013 8:40 AM


Re: faith is not needed
That is a conclusion rather based on the biases of the evolutionists, that's all it is

Nope, based on the evidence as cited in the post above.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Ossat, posted 04-09-2013 8:40 AM Ossat has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 2854
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(2)
Message 209 of 262 (695852)
04-09-2013 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by divermike1974
04-08-2013 10:04 AM


Unreliable Causes Apathy
divermike1974 writes:

Its just the simple fact that 80 odd percent of the worlds population believe in some form of higher intelligence not of this universe that has God like qualities.

Right.

However... we also know that when people use their brains, they generally get things wrong.
As I said in Message 101.

You need to program your brain correctly in order to use it correctly to be confident that your results are right.
If you program your brain using other methods... then your brain only gives unreliable results.

Science is a strict method of programming our brains in order to confidently lead us to correct results.
Belief is a different method of programming our brains that leads us to unreliable results.

"Belief in God is scientific" is a Belief (obviously). Therefore, it uses the method of programming our brains that leads us to unreliable results.
Therefore, the statement is unreliable.

Name one other humanity wide argumentum ad populum that covers 80 odd percent of the human population today.

The idea that belief is a good way to accurately gain knowledge about the supernatural.
That is also wrong.
So is your idea that because 80% of the population believes in God, then God exists.

They are wrong ideas because they use belief to lead to the answer. That makes the answer unreliable.
They are wrong ideas because science has been used to test the answers. And science has shown that the answers are unreliable (inconclusive at best, but likely wrong).

Nobody cares about unreliable ideas. Why should they?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by divermike1974, posted 04-08-2013 10:04 AM divermike1974 has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15734
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 210 of 262 (695856)
04-09-2013 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by divermike1974
04-09-2013 2:56 PM


Nearly mate but a photon has no mass therefore it isn't present in any of the matter within the universe.

If there weren't any gauge bosons then the universe would be a lot simpler. But less like the universe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by divermike1974, posted 04-09-2013 2:56 PM divermike1974 has not yet responded

  
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