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Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: bombs in Boston ... and now in Texas??? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
one commentator was saying that the marathon was a classic terrorist target - lots of innocent people, he seemed to think that a solo loony is more likely to have a personal target - tax office, teacher, local car wash that damaged his car, president. Perhaps the commentator has forgotten about (or perhaps never heard of, it was 17 years ago) Eric Rudolph, the man who plead guilty to bombing the 1996 Atlanta Olympics and who hid out in the North Carolina mountains. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But everyone is still speculating. I understand that. My point is that the very little of the speculation is worthwhile.
There was also talk of the difficulty in setting two bombs (and there's talk of more Well, today's word seems to be that no other bombs were found. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I'm sure that is what you believe. You've made a series of posts which stop just short of saying that you can envision some set of circumstances under which blowing off children's legs at the finish line of the Boston Marathon might be a logical and correct act. Could you stop being coy and give us some examples of circumstances you think would fit the bill?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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No, I can't give you any examples of when I think blowing off children's legs at the finish line of the Boston Marathon might be a logical and correct act but that is irrelevant. Thank you for that. So when people say that there are no reasons they, as you just did, are expressing their own opinions. There is no need to annouce such posts with 'In my opinion', because that should be the default case for every post. Such expressions of what is reasonable are not challengable on the basis that someone else might think differently. And that's particularly so when you don't even disagree with the opinion expressed.
But the people injured were likely not the target of the acts anyway; it may well be that they were simply incidental to some other target like the city, the state, tax laws, the Federal Government, Obama, Gay Marriage, the FBI . Right. We should accept that attacking a concept by maiming children is just incidental damage? Well, no, we shouldn't.
It is very possible, even likely, that whoever planted the bombs, whether foreign or domestic, believes that their actions were completely reasonable, logical, ethical and justified. Yes, that's certainly possible. It's also something you never actually got around to clearly expressing until I called you on what you actually did say. Sometimes your 'It's just that simple' minimalist method of posting doesn't effectively communicate with others. I don't expect you to change your posting style. But understand that in this case, being cryptic was earning you an odious reputation that you don't deserve.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Whether it was foreign or domestic has nothing to do with how they view their motivation. As a matter of fact, it well might. I can envision at least some scenarios which don't make sense for an American that might make sense for a native of For example, someone in Yemen might feel that his country should be in a state of war with the US because of drone strikes. I wouldn't expect a cowboy from Wyoming to be able to make that same call. And in any event, the fact that the Yemen or whoever thinks his position is rational does not mean I have to agree with him or that the attacker is not disturbe. I'm not bound to adopt the same view as the attacker.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Damn good thing no one suggested such a thing than isn't it. You suggested that having a target of 'Gay Marriage' might make some difference. It is perfectly correct for those of us who aren't the attacker to not accept that targetting a concept, or an institution, or a person unlikely to even be present, or an entire City or State is justification. I think that covers most of the example 'targets' you proposed. You'll let me know if I missed something.
Well, I certainly did not think I was being cryptic but my reputation is also totally irrelevant and of no consideration. I was pretty sure you didn't think of your posts as cryptic; I would have expressed myself more directly had I thought so. But I did make an unwarranted assumption that you were actually trying to communicate something and that you cared about others understanding you. ABE: Here is a difference between a drone strike and bombing the Boston Marathon to get at Obama. A drone strike involes targetting some person who is at least believed to be present. Obama was not at the Boston Marathon, and there was no reason to expect him to be there. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Actually, I can most certainly imagine a Wyoming Rancher thinking he should be in a state of war against the US because of drone surveillance and the potential of strikes So a single person can be at war? I'm pretty sure I can find an example of you suggesting the opposite.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Absoultley not. The terrorist is hoping for just that. This sentiment makes no sense to me. We ought to do what's right regardless of whether a terrorist agrees or disagrees. Let's not spend money on detecting guns on planes because that's what the terrorists want us to do? Does that make sense to you?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But the bombing did make Obama (and most of the government) look ineffective. Is this the best response to the issues raised in my post? Seriously, this is the best you can do?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
But the Wyoming Rancher can have the same fears as the person in Lebanon, after all the US is rapidly expanding the military drone bases in the Us (over 50), the use of drones and even continental based Predator and Reaper bases. But he couldn't think he or his country was at war with the US, now could he? We can eliminate at least one possible rationalization from the list, can we not? But I've made my point, I think. Since we aren't required to adopt the rationalizations of the target, we are still free to believe that there is no state of war with the citizen in Wyoming and that even a war rationalization for targetting marathoners and marathon attendees is completely bogus. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
He could think that the US Government should be overthrown. He could think (and many do) that he should be at war with the US. By your own admission, such rationalizations are wrong. He cannot be at war with the US.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I meant we as a society should not change our ideology simply because we want to appease a certain group who will resort to violence to achieve a goal. I agree, for some definition of the word 'ideology'. But some policies we might have are clearly counterproductive, and one of the factors that makes them counterproductive is the expectation of a terrorist response. I know the neo-cons tell us not to think like that, but I think that advice is foolhardy.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Am I getting you right? Jar says not quite. Perhaps if you ask jar a dozen more questions or if I continue interrogating him in my own testy style we can find out what he really thinks. Is getting jar 'right' really worth that level of effort?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I read on CNN that Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham were asking for the surviving bomber to be held as an enemy combatant. Reports are that Dzhokar is a naturalized American citizen.
I've tried to research the current definition of enemy combatant, and it seems that it can apply to American citizens acting for a foreign interest. Not sure how we get there with a couple of an expat Russian. Any opinions about what the executive branch will do in this regard? Seems like we'll get another test case for our post 9/11 constitution. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Doesn't the Patriot Act already do that? Isn't that how Bradley Manning is still locked up no trial? This dude's justice is as good as gone. I think Manning has at least been charged an indicted and was given Maranda rights. The rest of his treatment can be blamed on preventing release of classified info. ABE: Isn't he still under military jurisdiction as well? No such excuse for treating the bomber differently from say the DC sniper, unless they can classify him as an enemy combatant. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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