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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Faith
Member
Posts: 25306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2161 of 2241 (749180)
02-02-2015 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2160 by Golffly
02-02-2015 3:33 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
See previous post where I've quoted the verses that explain that the "gods" are devils, otherwise known as demons.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2160 by Golffly, posted 02-02-2015 3:33 PM Golffly has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2162 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2015 3:47 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 2163 by Golffly, posted 02-02-2015 3:59 PM Faith has responded
 Message 2169 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:08 PM Faith has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2162 of 2241 (749181)
02-02-2015 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2161 by Faith
02-02-2015 3:35 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
You would think that god guy would be better at explaining things and writing things clearly. According to what you are saying, what is written is a real clusterfuck. Is English really that hard?

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2161 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 3:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2166 by Golffly, posted 02-02-2015 4:58 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Golffly
Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2163 of 2241 (749184)
02-02-2015 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2161 by Faith
02-02-2015 3:35 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
faith writes:

See previous post where I've quoted the verses that explain that the "gods" are devils, otherwise known as demons

Like I said you made it up.
You pull two quotes like they apply to all the unrelated ones.
Read Theodoric's post.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2161 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 3:35 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2164 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 4:05 PM Golffly has not yet responded
 Message 2173 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:28 PM Golffly has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2164 of 2241 (749186)
02-02-2015 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2163 by Golffly
02-02-2015 3:59 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Sorry, it's standard understanding that those references clarify what the references to "gods" mean.

It's also said in the NT, in 1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2163 by Golffly, posted 02-02-2015 3:59 PM Golffly has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2165 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 4:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2165 of 2241 (749188)
02-02-2015 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2164 by Faith
02-02-2015 4:05 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
When I say "standard understanding" I mean at least within the circle of Protestant-Evangelical churches that came down from the Reformation, but it's probably also standard in the RC church as well; the fallen angels or demons or devils ARE the gods worshipped in all the natural human-invented religions of mankind.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2164 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 4:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Golffly
Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2166 of 2241 (749191)
02-02-2015 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2162 by Theodoric
02-02-2015 3:47 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Theodoric writes:

You would think that god guy would be better at explaining things and writing things clearly. According to what you are saying, what is written is a real clusterfuck. Is English really that hard?

Back when you were studying this stuff. Did they ever mention this? I mean the crap they make up to try and explain these contradictions is remarkable.
Is too bad the actual writers never knew these were contradictions so they could avoid putting them in.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2162 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2015 3:47 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Golffly
Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2167 of 2241 (749192)
02-02-2015 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2159 by Faith
02-02-2015 3:27 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Okay, I'm trying to follow this disingenuous stuff that Faith is saying.
Learned through esteemed "maker uppers".

So far as I can follow the excuses run like this.
-When god says us (implying multi-gods)...he means trinity without ever saying Trinity.
-If "gods" occur in the bible after Leviticus then it's demon gods because of these pulled out quotes>

faith writes:

see Leviticus 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

and Deuteronomy 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

Now what about stuff referring to gods, before the pulled out quotes of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. That is stuff in Exodus>

And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11

Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11

This occurs prior to Leviticus and the demon god excuse.
What kind of stuff do the " maker uppers" use to explain these or do these get ignored?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2159 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 3:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2168 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 8:49 PM Golffly has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2168 of 2241 (749193)
02-02-2015 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2167 by Golffly
02-02-2015 5:33 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
The arrogance of the ignorant is beyond comprehension these days. You come along and tell the people who revere the Bible and have interpreted it consistently for hundreds of years that they're wrong, you tell me I "made it up" and you just go on with your weird stuff no matter what.

Now you are going on about how this or that occurred before or after something else which in your frame of reference is another "contradiction" I guess, but it really makes no sense.

Now what about stuff referring to gods, before the pulled out quotes of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. That is stuff in Exodus>

And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12

Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11

Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11

This occurs prior to Leviticus and the demon god excuse.
What kind of stuff do the " maker uppers" use to explain these or do these get ignored?

The gods of Egypt are also demon gods, why wouldn't they be? Scripture says God, the uncreated Creator God, is greater than all the lesser gods of the various nations, which are later in the Pentateuch explained to be demons. It's perfectly consistent, it takes a strange mentality to make something else of it. Scripture EXPLAINS the gods as demons later on in the text, but the explanation applies to ALL the gods wherever described.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2167 by Golffly, posted 02-02-2015 5:33 PM Golffly has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9650
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2169 of 2241 (749194)
02-02-2015 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2161 by Faith
02-02-2015 3:35 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
misguided and likely wrong.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Je Suis Charlie

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2161 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 3:35 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2170 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 9:10 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2170 of 2241 (749195)
02-02-2015 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2169 by NoNukes
02-02-2015 9:08 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Excuse me????? The verses I put up are understood to explain the nature of the heathen "gods." What is your problem?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2169 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:08 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2171 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:12 PM Faith has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9650
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2171 of 2241 (749196)
02-02-2015 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2170 by Faith
02-02-2015 9:10 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Excuse me????? The verses I put up are understood to explain the nature of the heathen "gods." What is your problem?

I don't have a problem. I read the wrong post. Unfortunately you read a message that I was in the midst of correcting.


Je Suis Charlie

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2170 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 9:10 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2172 by Faith, posted 02-02-2015 9:14 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2172 of 2241 (749197)
02-02-2015 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2171 by NoNukes
02-02-2015 9:12 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Whew! That's a relief.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2171 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:12 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9650
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2173 of 2241 (749200)
02-02-2015 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2163 by Golffly
02-02-2015 3:59 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
Like I said you made it up.

However well, or unwell sourced Faith's interpretation, it is pretty evident that she did not make it up. Faith did not invent the Trinity or demons.

Surely you've heard most of this fundy stuff yourself prior to ever encountering Faith. What is the basis for your accusations that she is making stuff up?


Je Suis Charlie

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2163 by Golffly, posted 02-02-2015 3:59 PM Golffly has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2174 by Percy, posted 02-03-2015 6:48 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 2175 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 7:36 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 2176 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 9:03 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15645
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2174 of 2241 (749216)
02-03-2015 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2173 by NoNukes
02-02-2015 9:28 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
I wasn't interpreting Golffly as saying that Faith personally made it up, just that she's promoting the made-up nonsense of fundamentalism. Golffly compares it to all the other religions that do exactly the same thing, believing unequivocally in stuff they've made up. Faith could no more convince a fundamentalist Muslim of her made up nonsense than he could convince her of his, because religious belief doesn't derive from evidence.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2173 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:28 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Golffly
Member (Idle past 523 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2175 of 2241 (749219)
02-03-2015 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 2173 by NoNukes
02-02-2015 9:28 PM


Re: An irreconcilable clash of world views
nonukes writes:

However well, or unwell sourced Faith's interpretation, it is pretty evident that she did not make it up. Faith did not invent the Trinity or demons.

Surely you've heard most of this fundy stuff yourself prior to ever encountering Faith. What is the basis for your accusations that she is making stuff up?

I was doing as Percy suggests, made up from Faith means some apologist made it up.
As Jar suggested early Jews ( like everyone else) were polytheists. I think to make up otherwise, in order to have it fit a preconceived conclusion is disingenuous.
With this type of thinking one could make up whatever they think, then make the book fit that. It doesn't really matter what the conclusion is, just make up stuff to fit that.
The same process is done with literal Muslims. Making the book fit the group think.
The lengths that must be undertaken to have obvious things say things the way the " make uppers" have decided is a remarkable feat in maintaing a delusion. It is no different than what apologist Muslims do or what is done with BoM to have it be the most true book ever written.
Other books share the unique quality when distorted thinking is applied.
If I was to play a game with the Quran, like what is done with the bible. Faith would be all over it as an obvious distortion. But condones it when done with the bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2173 by NoNukes, posted 02-02-2015 9:28 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
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