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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12426
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2206 of 2241 (749330)
02-03-2015 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2205 by Faith
02-03-2015 5:56 PM


Re: The end of all reason
In other words your argument is just begging the question. You can't prove that Christianity is better than rival religions by just assuming that it's true.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2205 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 5:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2207 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 6:11 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2207 of 2241 (749333)
02-03-2015 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2206 by PaulK
02-03-2015 6:06 PM


Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
I didn't claim to prove anything, I merely answered the charge that it's the same as all the other religions by showing that it offers us salvation from sin through Christ's death. You can of course ignore it or disbelieve it or whatever.

Buddhist Hell kind of looks like fun with all those mean blue beings chasing everybody around with pointy things and doing unmentionable things to their poor bodies. Priobably where Hieronymus Bosch got his inspiration.

Or you could just take your chances that all ancient cultures were wrong and there is no such place and go on whistling in the dark. Bon chance!

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2206 by PaulK, posted 02-03-2015 6:06 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2208 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 8:44 PM Faith has responded
 Message 2214 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 12:57 AM Faith has responded

    
Golffly
Member (Idle past 428 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 2208 of 2241 (749352)
02-03-2015 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2207 by Faith
02-03-2015 6:11 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
faith writes:

I didn't claim to prove anything, I merely answered the charge that it's the same as all the other religions by showing that it offers us salvation from sin through Christ's death. You can of course ignore it or disbelieve it or whatever.
Buddhist Hell kind of looks like fun with all those mean blue beings chasing everybody around with pointy things and doing unmentionable things to their poor bodies. Priobably where Hieronymus Bosch got his inspiration.

Or you could just take your chances that all ancient cultures were wrong and there is no such place and go on whistling in the dark. Bon chance!

Doesn't it seem a bit like you are pretending to be your version of god condemning all these various people to hell. Isn't that putting another god before god or lying. Aren't you kind of breaking your own commandments. That's how I read it anyway.
And Mormonism also the saving via Christ. But how do you know that matters?
I mean you can't prove you aren't going to Hindu hell?
Maybe Christian women end up as one if the concubines for the Muslim martyrs?
This stuff, your stuff and theirs, is all equal in absurdity. You criticizing Islam is the ultimate in irony. Eating a cracker is the body of a dead guy? God is fighting or playing with dragons?
The list of absurdity is nearly endless. Just because you get use to your absurdity and think it's fine, doesn't mean Muslims don't see it as absurd.
Why is Islam out performing Christianity in growth in North America?
Why does the purportedly true Christian faith have 1/3 of the planet as believers? It failed because it simply is baseless, like the other religions you criticize.
You have no right to criticize another religion..none.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2207 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 6:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2209 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 10:27 PM Golffly has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2209 of 2241 (749358)
02-03-2015 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2208 by Golffly
02-03-2015 8:44 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Orthodox traditional Christianity offers salvation from sin and Hell through the death of the incarnate God in our place, and if you want I can find the necessary Bible support, but I'm sure you couldn't care less. In any case no other religion offers salvation from sin and Hell; you're on your own trying to be "good" enough to avoid Hell.

But in particular I'd suggest that you avoid such definitions of goodness as suicide bombing and beheading infidels or putting them on the rack or in the iron maiden. But that's just me, if it seems right to you who am I to criticize it?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2208 by Golffly, posted 02-03-2015 8:44 PM Golffly has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2210 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:36 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28422
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2210 of 2241 (749360)
02-03-2015 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2209 by Faith
02-03-2015 10:27 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Faith writes:

Orthodox traditional Christianity offers salvation from sin and Hell through the death of the incarnate God in our place, and if you want I can find the necessary Bible support, but I'm sure you couldn't care less. In any case no other religion offers salvation from sin and Hell; you're on your own trying to be "good" enough to avoid Hell.

Ah yes, that is the product orthodox Christianity sells. Too bad there is no product reliability laws that can be used to put them in jail where they belong.

No other con man is so successful and so secure as the Christian Cult of Ignorance snake oil salesman!

But of course that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic and is simply another attempt by you to try to palm the pea, change the subject, misdirect attention, avoid responding to facts or reality and to try again to market the "Get outta hell free cheap ass Christianity con".

To bad Jesus says in the Bible that you are full of shit and that you will be judged based on what you do, not what you profess.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2209 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 10:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2211 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 10:39 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2211 of 2241 (749361)
02-03-2015 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2210 by jar
02-03-2015 10:36 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Quite true, we've left the topic, but as I'm sure you know I can produce the Bible support for my orthodox traditional view that Jesus died for our sins on this thread or elsewhere as you prefer.

Once we are saved then our deeds count and will count as part of our salvation, but not until we've received the salvation He paid for on the cross.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2210 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2212 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:46 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28422
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2212 of 2241 (749365)
02-03-2015 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2211 by Faith
02-03-2015 10:39 PM


back towards the topic
Faith writes:

Quite true, we've left the topic, but as I'm sure you know I can produce the Bible support for my orthodox traditional view that Jesus died for our sins. Once we are saved then our deeds count and will count as part of our salvation, but not until we've received the salvation He paid for on the cross.

And as I'm quite sure everyone knows I can produce the Bible support that shows it is not necessary to receive anything. That's more great evidence that the Bible is just the words of man and filled with contradictions and inconsistencies.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2211 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 10:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2213 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 10:57 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2213 of 2241 (749367)
02-03-2015 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2212 by jar
02-03-2015 10:46 PM


Re: back towards the topic
Only you can't produce your Bible support without pretending mine doesn't exist, whereas I can take yours into account along with mine.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2212 by jar, posted 02-03-2015 10:46 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2226 by jar, posted 02-04-2015 8:23 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12426
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2214 of 2241 (749372)
02-04-2015 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2207 by Faith
02-03-2015 6:11 PM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
So Christianity is "different" because it's the only religion to offer a "solution" to a "problem it invented. That's not exactly a useful difference if you're trying to claim that Christianity is better than other religions.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2207 by Faith, posted 02-03-2015 6:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2215 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 1:05 AM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2215 of 2241 (749374)
02-04-2015 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2214 by PaulK
02-04-2015 12:57 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
So Christianity is "different" because it's the only religion to offer a "solution" to a "problem it invented. That's not exactly a useful difference if you're trying to claim that Christianity is better than other religions.

abe: Christianity is not at all different or unique in recognition of sin and judgment and an afterlife that punishes sin; it's only unique in that it offers a solution to a problem that is universally recognized in one way or another. /abe

Since Christianity didn't invent Hell I assume you'll take your chances that all those other cultures and religions just made up the idea so you needn't bother about the offered solution. Your call, of course, but I rather think one might reasonably take some heed to the universal or near-universal concept of such an afterlife. But again, your call. Or maybe you think you are so good you wouldn't go there anyway.

abe: Christianity didn't invent the idea of sin and judgment either of course, it merely revealed its true reality, same as with Hell. Even the idea of "karma" is an expression of a universal law that inexorably judges us. Again, an imperfect idea which is presented more accurately in the Bible.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2214 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 12:57 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2216 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 1:45 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12426
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2216 of 2241 (749377)
02-04-2015 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2215 by Faith
02-04-2015 1:05 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
quote:

Since Christianity didn't invent Hell I assume you'll take your chances that all those other cultures and religions just made up the idea so you needn't bother about the offered solution.

But they DO have solutions to "going to Hell". As you know. You just claim that they don't work. Because of a "problem" that Christianity invented.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2215 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 1:05 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2217 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 5:13 AM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2217 of 2241 (749384)
02-04-2015 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 2216 by PaulK
02-04-2015 1:45 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Oh get real. Hell is universal, the problem is universal, only the solution is unique. There is NO solution worthy of the name solution offered anywhere, nothing even remotely similar to Jesus' taking all our sins on Himself and dying in our place. GET REAL.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2216 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 1:45 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2218 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:25 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12426
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2218 of 2241 (749386)
02-04-2015 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2217 by Faith
02-04-2015 5:13 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
Unique doesn't mean better, or true. And the Calvinist "solution" has to be the worst around. Being lucky enough to be one of the few selected to be spared isn't much of a solution. Especially as Calvin tells us that the whole problem was intentionally created by God in the first place.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2217 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 5:13 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2219 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 5:28 AM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23953
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2219 of 2241 (749387)
02-04-2015 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2218 by PaulK
02-04-2015 5:25 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
I said nothing about Calvin. Jesus died for our sins, not Calvin, and that is the core teaching of every branch of Christianity. Except weird revisionists like jar.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2218 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:25 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2220 by PaulK, posted 02-04-2015 5:46 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12426
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2220 of 2241 (749388)
02-04-2015 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2219 by Faith
02-04-2015 5:28 AM


Re: Hell and salvation -- or not -- therefrom
So Calvinism isn't Christian? Or is so insignificant a part of Christianity that it should be ignored? Or should it just be ignored because you - now - disagree with it? So far as I can see, according to Calvinism, Jesus only died for the sins of the Elect- the rest of us get nothing for it at all, and aren't meant to get anything out of it.

Anyway, Jesus dying for our sins doesn't seem to be special in any way that would make me think that it was likely to be true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2219 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 5:28 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2221 by Faith, posted 02-04-2015 5:52 AM PaulK has responded

    
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