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Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Debt Clock | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Straggler writes: The strong implication seems to be debt always = bad. But if you look at the countries with the lowest debt they also seem to be those with the least developed industrial and economic infrastructure. Is a certain level of debt necessary for economic and productive progress? Is this 'clock' just pursuing the fallacy of big numbers? Or is it a fair reflection of a problem that the Western world seems unable to adequately acknowledge? Ahh yes! That pesky debt! The conspiracy of the wealthy to transfer their private responsibility as wealthy humans into public responsibility of the willfully ignorant masses! I know the topic well..... our very own jar used to always chant the mantra that "the bill will get paid! Which annoyed me. The inner conspiracy theorist suggests that the global debt is sort of synonymous with a plot to harness the global collateral known as humanity and assign us all permanent debit status. We can all collectively borrow endlessly off of this "out of thin air" money virtually perpetually and eternally but we are slaves to the monopoly game we all agreed to play. All I know is this. Personally, I am out of debt. Any bill that gets sent my way will have to be one I actually created. Otherwise it gets tossed in the trash along with all of the credit card offers.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
quote: Why? Its just people owing other people. Why must it get repaid? I have known several ex-friends (and friends as well) who owed me money that they borrowed...and to date have never paid it back. Why cant this truth hold true on a macro scale?
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Coyote writes: Does the thought make you nervous? "If I don't get my dream, nobody gets their dream!"
Are you serious?
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
AZPaul writes: Is that true? Does the system only work by managing debt? You young ones may be too young, but the rest of you should remember when Clinton did the budget surplus thing and the "peace dividend" was all the rage. One of the proposals to "spend" this windfall was to pay down the debt. Problem: the whole world's financial markets were apoplectic and shaking with fear. They were already feeling squeezed by the fact that the issuance of new bonds and notes had stopped since we didn't need to fund any more debt. The prospect of a shrinking US Treasuries market sent shocks through the whole financial world. People may think gold is the standard for asset protection, when in fact, for the major markets, funds, banks and governments the whole world over the capital preservation asset of choice is the US Government Treasury bond. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I think you are right, Frako. Lets just hope that the world doesn't push the US into a corner and reject our dollars, or we ourselves may become the evil enemy with WMD's.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
My comment to frako was of course tongue-in-cheek...but Straggler does bring up a valid point...why have WMD's if not to use them...
and if the US was hypothetically pushed into a corner and dumped by the world at large, what would prevent us from imagining a threat to our survival and using WMD's to nullify that threat? (Perhaps in many ways that's why we continue to start wars and/or enlarge them....our very survival stems from a self perpetuating military industrial complex.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
To be fair...lets keep this all in the context of the debt clock.
I am just being hypothetical in regards to ways that the US could respond to the threat of being solely held accountable for the global debt and what our hypothetical response could be.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: How do you nullify an economic threat by using WMDs? An ignorant response would assert that no bill gets paid until the war is over...and it appears that the war is never over. Look at how they are chomping at the bit to get involved in Syria? We seem to not only want to be the global cop but to get paid for doing so...
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Good point. The US would need to have at least some allies on its side. The deeper question is whether or not "they" are laughing at us now? Have we already crossed the line which we can never retreat back from? Are we gonna get solely stuck with this massive bill and, as you have asserted, will it literally set us back 50 years?
If so, this topic ties in with my "socioeconomic-at-risk-Phat topic...and I as an old codger with declining skills must decide what type of solution will I need?
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
there needs to be a differentiation between what "we" voted for in the past---out of ignorance perhaps---and the current present crop of "we"...since it appears that the bill gets larger because absolutely no one equates the future (or the past) with the present moment.
For some, the bill will get paid---someday--but that the day will never be now since nobody is prepared for that scare. You do realize that my tongue-in-cheek pronouncements on a culture desperate enough to use WMD's has an element of truth to it---if this current population--the "we" of today--may in fact get scared enough to push the red button if doomsday ever came.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The word is banned only in use by jar. Most everyone else can use it.
The phrase CCoI was coined by jar a few years ago. It refers to the Biblical Creationist Fundamentalist Christians who ignore critical thinking and parrot what they are taught without wanting to think. Christian radio is usually a rich source of CCoI propaganda. I believe a lot of what they say, and have been accused of preferring fantasy over reality. Time will tell whether or not I bet on the wrong pony.
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Revisiting this topic, since I saw the following article in todays news:
5 Facts About The National Debt You used to always talk about debt ratio to GDP.
Is there any way this will affect our retirement?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: We wanted what you call "this massive bill".We voted for politicians that supported starting wars, making the debt higher, not raising taxes, under funding infrastructure, removing the safety net, destroying education about responsibilities, destroying the whole concept of news and reporting, removing controls on industry ... We wanted this massive bill and we still want it to get even bigger. Donald Trump isn't helping matters any. As he himself has been bankrupt several times, perhaps he is unafraid to lead the country the same direction. Comments?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I did a bit of internet research...
Did George W. Bush 'borrow' from Social Security to fund the war in Iraq and tax cuts? from a website called PolitiFact. They explain that it's mostly false and have a line of reasoning. The bottom line seems to be our ability to borrow, period. If we can always do it, we can keep pushing the due date forward in time.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18345 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Trump Says Debt Ceiling Is 'Not Necessary.' Is He Right?
This is interesting. Trump is working with the Democrats to find a solution to the debt ceiling. I never did like Paul Ryan anyway.... Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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