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Author Topic:   The Debt Clock
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3428
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(1)
Message 16 of 111 (702595)
07-10-2013 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Coyote
07-09-2013 11:50 PM


Re: Why Must The Debt Be Repaid?
Are you serious?

Or did I miss the /sarcasm tag somehow.

No, it's just Phat. Sometimes reality is a little loose in the Phat world.

Nothing dangerous. But entertaining.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Coyote, posted 07-09-2013 11:50 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 17 of 111 (702597)
07-10-2013 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Coyote
07-09-2013 11:50 PM


Re: Why Must The Debt Be Repaid?
Are you serious?

I think it's about time we looked at unconventional fiscal strategies. Asking really nicely to be let off our debts is certainly one possible solution. Another is that the US could fake its own death and move to Mexico. Or we could persuade Congress not to budget more spending in a year than the government receives in tax revenue ... ha, no, just kidding. See you in Tijuana.


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jar
Member
Posts: 29627
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 18 of 111 (702612)
07-10-2013 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
07-09-2013 11:28 PM


Re: Why Must The Debt Be Repaid?
And, as you know I have answered that for you many times.

First, debts can get repaid in other than money. They can get paid in pain and suffering. If the US stopped paying it's debts then the currency will get devalued and the whole world would suffer. When Safeway goes to by those products they sell from other countries the suppliers would either simply refuse to sell to Safeway.

Debt can also be transferred. When the individual refuses to pay his debts they do not simply disappear, rather they get passed on to others.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 12 by Phat, posted 07-09-2013 11:28 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 111 (702639)
07-10-2013 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
07-09-2013 11:28 PM


Re: Why Must The Debt Be Repaid?
You are missing the point.

Those debts still got repaidby you.

The debt gets paid.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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gene90
Member (Idle past 1417 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 20 of 111 (705980)
09-04-2013 6:24 PM


Debt has legitimate uses. Why shouldn't the state use the money of foreign creditors to prop up its economy? That benefits your economy at the cost of everyone else. The problem is when it accumulates to the point it cannot be paid back. More specifically, as the state's debt load increases its credit worthiness declines. At some critical juncture--which is impossible to predict in advance--you get a sovereign debt crisis in which your creditors stop lending and your currency becomes worthless as you run the printing presses to inflate your way out. The reason that point can't be predicted is because it's an effect of herd behavior in markets. You can never know in advance just when investors will get spooked.

All the debt doesn't have to be paid back. It simply has to be kept manageable. If it grows at a rate below that of GDP + inflation, it's not a problem.

There's been some talk of "balanced budget" amendments to the US Constitution. I'd really rather see the government begin to take a long term view on things and get the growth of deficits under control...because that makes it harder to use debt to prime the economy, but it's hard to imagine Congress getting their house in order.


  
frako
Member
Posts: 2715
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 21 of 111 (706098)
09-06-2013 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
07-08-2013 7:23 PM


What are we to make of this? The strong implication seems to be debt always = bad. But if you look at the countries with the lowest debt they also seem to be those with the least developed industrial and economic infrastructure.

Technically US debt dosent matter that much as long as the world energy production is mainly fossil fuel based, and oil is sold only in dollars. You can always print yourself out of your liquidity problems and not worry about a high inflation because your money gets spread around the world. Because people and countries have to "buy" your dollar so they can buy oil. Combined with the fact that you can spend your dollars almost anywhere while we haveto buy dollars first when we buy stuff from you. You can print mony and drop it out of helicopters in your cities and inflation would never become hyperinflation.

The real problem is if anything mentioned above would change. Your population would soon be able to build money houses cheaper then building them with building materials.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 10087
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 22 of 111 (707302)
09-26-2013 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by AZPaul3
07-10-2013 1:14 AM


Re: Blues Clues
AZPaul writes:

You young ones may be too young, but the rest of you should remember when Clinton did the budget surplus thing and the "peace dividend" was all the rage. One of the proposals to "spend" this windfall was to pay down the debt. Problem: the whole world's financial markets were apoplectic and shaking with fear. They were already feeling squeezed by the fact that the issuance of new bonds and notes had stopped since we didn't need to fund any more debt. The prospect of a shrinking US Treasuries market sent shocks through the whole financial world. People may think gold is the standard for asset protection, when in fact, for the major markets, funds, banks and governments the whole world over the capital preservation asset of choice is the US Government Treasury bond.

Is that true? Does the system only work by managing debt?

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 10087
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 23 of 111 (707303)
09-26-2013 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by frako
09-06-2013 3:09 AM


Scary
I think you are right, Frako. Lets just hope that the world doesn't push the US into a corner and reject our dollars, or we ourselves may become the evil enemy with WMD's.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29627
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 24 of 111 (707310)
09-26-2013 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
09-26-2013 5:49 AM


Re: Scary
Too funny.

And just what would the US do with the WMD's?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 23 by Phat, posted 09-26-2013 5:49 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 25 of 111 (707312)
09-26-2013 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
09-26-2013 8:55 AM


Re: Scary
What options are there when it comes to doing things with WMDs?

Using them to kill people. Not using them to kill people (i.e. stockpiling them). Destroying/disposing of them.

What other options are there?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-26-2013 8:55 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29627
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 26 of 111 (707314)
09-26-2013 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Straggler
09-26-2013 9:37 AM


Re: Scary
Not sure how any of those options would help the US economy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Straggler, posted 09-26-2013 9:37 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 27 of 111 (707315)
09-26-2013 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
09-26-2013 9:48 AM


Re: Scary
So - economically speaking - what should the US do with it's WMDs?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 09-26-2013 9:48 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29627
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 28 of 111 (707317)
09-26-2013 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Straggler
09-26-2013 10:02 AM


Re: Scary
That way too far off topic for this thread.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 29 of 111 (707327)
09-26-2013 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
09-26-2013 10:07 AM


Re: Scary
OK. But it was you that asked "Just what would the US do with the WMD's?"

I'm just pointing out that there isn't a great deal one can do with such things if killing people is taken off the table.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 09-26-2013 10:07 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 09-26-2013 11:46 AM Straggler has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29627
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 30 of 111 (707332)
09-26-2013 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Straggler
09-26-2013 11:37 AM


Re: Scary
Why would killing folk be taken off the table?

My question was directed towards Phat's post Message 23. Did you even read that?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 37 by Phat, posted 09-26-2013 1:07 PM jar has responded

  
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