Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   The Debt Clock
jar
Member
Posts: 29365
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 76 of 111 (819663)
09-13-2017 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
09-13-2017 7:43 PM


Re: Understanding Money
LOL

Think Phat.

AbE: seriously, think.

Who depends on Social Security?

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 7:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 8:40 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9767
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 77 of 111 (819678)
09-13-2017 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by jar
09-13-2017 7:47 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Who depends on Social Security?

The working class...those of us who don't make enough to save much and who can't rely on family inheritance.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 7:47 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 8:48 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 8:51 PM Phat has responded
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 09-13-2017 9:03 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29365
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 78 of 111 (819681)
09-13-2017 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
09-13-2017 8:40 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Not really Phat. It is only the old and sick and injured that rely on Social Security.

Now consider the young working class.

When the candidate tells them that they will get to keep 10% more every paycheck so they can prepare for their future if they elect him; who will they vote for?

Old sick and injured never put on successful revolutions.

Young folk are indestructible and will never get old.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 8:40 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
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Posts: 9928
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 79 of 111 (819683)
09-13-2017 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
09-13-2017 8:40 PM


Re: Understanding Money
The working class...those of us who don't make enough to save much

Interesting. So someone who busts his butt fixing air conditioners or doing electrical wiring and manages to take home say, 60k is not working class according to you. That dude or gal would be pretty much bourgeoisie if we let you tell it.

No wonder you feel put upon.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up theyre not going to shoot me. This is what Im thinking theyre not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 8:40 PM Phat has responded

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Phat
Member
Posts: 9767
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 80 of 111 (819686)
09-13-2017 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by NoNukes
09-13-2017 8:51 PM


Re: Understanding Money
No...I'm not saying that. I'm saying that working class is under 80 k. They make enough to pay rent and house payments and support their families...but they cannot save enough to retire with 300k or so...they need social security. And if the wealthy of this country abandon the old and the sick, may God take vengeance on this country.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 8:51 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 9:02 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29365
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 81 of 111 (819687)
09-13-2017 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
09-13-2017 9:00 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Phat writes:

And if the wealthy of this country abandon the old and the sick, may God take vengeance on this country.

It is unlikely that it will be the wealthy that are the issue but rather the young working class voters that will elect the people that will gut Social Security.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 9:00 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26306
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 82 of 111 (819688)
09-13-2017 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
09-13-2017 8:40 PM


Re: Understanding Money
As NN said, it is possible to be working class and make quite a lot of money, there is no necessary equation between working class and inability to save or even be pretty well off. I know someone who works for AT&T climbing power poles all day long, often working overtime, whose wife does nails -- fingernails, toenails -- and between them they make something like 150K a year. They do better than a lot of "white collar" workers. I also had a friend who bought a house and saved a lot of money for his retirement driving a cement mixer. Truck drivers can make a LOT of money too.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 77 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 8:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9767
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 83 of 111 (819697)
09-13-2017 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by jar
09-13-2017 9:02 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Thats horrible. Is it the same bunch that elected Trump? In my opinion, even immigrants would vote to keep social security, as they respect the old.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 9:02 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13644
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 84 of 111 (819737)
09-14-2017 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
09-13-2017 7:43 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Phat writes:

The people always win, in the final analysis.


That's a pretty poor analysis. If the people always win, who loses?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 09-13-2017 7:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-14-2017 1:24 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9767
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 85 of 111 (819745)
09-14-2017 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
09-14-2017 12:06 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Perhaps I mean that the majority of people win.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 09-14-2017 12:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by jar, posted 09-14-2017 1:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 09-15-2017 11:46 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29365
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 86 of 111 (819747)
09-14-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
09-14-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Historically the majority of people lose.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-14-2017 1:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13644
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 87 of 111 (819947)
09-15-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
09-14-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Phat writes:

Perhaps I mean that the majority of people win.


My father used to say that people get the government they deserve. Maybe that's what you mean.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-14-2017 1:24 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 09-15-2017 12:11 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9767
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 88 of 111 (819954)
09-15-2017 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by ringo
09-15-2017 11:46 AM


Re: Understanding Money
What I am trying to do is propose the government that we the people should have. A fair one. If I can get a majority to agree with me as to what constitutes fairness, this train may yet leave the station.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ringo, posted 09-15-2017 11:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 09-15-2017 12:21 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13644
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 89 of 111 (819960)
09-15-2017 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
09-15-2017 12:11 PM


Re: Understanding Money
Phat writes:

If I can get a majority to agree with me as to what constitutes fairness, this train may yet leave the station.


That's a tall order. Not only are you promising everybody a rose garden but you're assuming that everybody will like roses.

The "fairness" that you propose seems to rest on you staying above the dregs of the working class. How is that fair to them?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 09-15-2017 12:11 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 09-15-2017 1:27 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9767
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 90 of 111 (819985)
09-15-2017 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
09-15-2017 12:21 PM


Re: Understanding Money
The "fairness" that you propose seems to rest on you staying above the dregs of the working class. How is that fair to them?

Point taken.

But we have a no-win situation.

How is it fair to me to be stuck with the masses...unable to rise?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 09-15-2017 12:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 09-15-2017 1:29 PM Phat has responded

  
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