Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,421 Year: 3,678/9,624 Month: 549/974 Week: 162/276 Day: 2/34 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Monotheism or Enotheism? What is more apt for Christian Religion?
Asteragros
Member (Idle past 3420 days)
Posts: 40
From: Modena, Italy
Joined: 01-11-2002


Message 1 of 72 (703396)
07-18-2013 10:37 AM


Frequently, people speak about the "the great monotheistic religions" to refer to Hebraism, Islam, and Christianity.
I query myself if these are monotheistic religions, really, or if they are more aptly situated in a conceptual context of Enotheism.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 07-18-2013 2:35 PM Asteragros has replied
 Message 9 by jar, posted 07-20-2013 2:41 PM Asteragros has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 72 (703397)
07-18-2013 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Asteragros
07-18-2013 10:37 AM


More please sir
It would help a great deal if you offered a definition for enotheism. It would then require that you show your argument for why these religions are enotheistic. Then perhaps it can be promoted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Asteragros, posted 07-18-2013 10:37 AM Asteragros has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Asteragros, posted 07-20-2013 1:58 AM AdminNosy has not replied

  
Asteragros
Member (Idle past 3420 days)
Posts: 40
From: Modena, Italy
Joined: 01-11-2002


Message 3 of 72 (703398)
07-20-2013 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNosy
07-18-2013 2:35 PM


Re: More please sir
You are right. Not every people know what Henotheism implies (I apologize for my mistake about my missing of the first letter ‘h’. In Italian the term is ‘Enoteismo’, without a prefixed "h").
‘Henotheism’ indicates the worship of a particular god, without disbelieving in the existence of others gods.
This concept may be illustrated with the help of a simple analogy:
Two men have a habit to read a news paper every day.
The — so to speak — ‘Monotheistic’ reader is that one who denies the existence of other published newspapers. So, he proclaims the only existent newspaper is that same newspaper he reads every day.
The — so to speak — ‘Henotheistic’ reader is that one who acknowledges the existence of other published newspapers, but chooses to read always the same newspaper.
On the basis of these concepts my question is: ‘It would be more correct define the classical ‘Monotheistic’ Religions like ‘Henotheistic’, since their followers do admit the existence of other - even though not worshipped by them - divinities besides the Divinity they choose to worship?
Thanks for the tip.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 07-18-2013 2:35 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 07-20-2013 6:59 AM Asteragros has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13017
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 72 (703399)
07-20-2013 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Asteragros
07-20-2013 1:58 AM


Re: More please sir
I couldn't find "enotheism" in any on-line dictionary or in my home dictionary, which is a good one, but I did find it at Quizlet:
Enotheism: Where several different Gods are worshipped but one takes a special place among them
That still doesn't mean it's a real word (though new words enter the language all the time), but that was the what I thought you meant, and it does seem especially appropriate for Christianity.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Asteragros, posted 07-20-2013 1:58 AM Asteragros has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Asteragros, posted 07-20-2013 12:58 PM Admin has replied

  
Asteragros
Member (Idle past 3420 days)
Posts: 40
From: Modena, Italy
Joined: 01-11-2002


Message 5 of 72 (703400)
07-20-2013 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
07-20-2013 6:59 AM


Re: More please sir
The term Henotheism (and the derivate ‘henotheistic’) is a real word.
For example, you may find a definition of Henotheism in the following on-line dictionaries:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/...gyptmyth/g/henotheism.htm
Henotheism Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
henotheism | religion | Britannica
Henotheism - definition of henotheism by The Free Dictionary
http://www.yourdictionary.com/henotheism
henotheism | Etymology, origin and meaning of henotheism by etymonline
But, what is more important than mere words are the concepts included in the three ideas of what we call Monotheism, Henotheism, and Politheism (these definitions are not always well defined!)
You may also safely forget these words and, instead, focus yourselves on these three ideal concepts:
Concept A: In the whole universe exists only one god. I worship this sole god.
Concept B: In the universe exist a number of gods. But I worship only one of these
Concept C: In the universe exist a number of gods. I worship all of them
Now, is not important if the word sequence ‘Monotheism’-‘Henotheism’-‘Politheism’ closely fits with the sequence ‘Concept A’-‘Concept B’-‘Concept C’ (shown before).
The pivotal point is:
Is — for example — Christianity more closely described like a Religion that sticks on the Concept A, the Concept B, or the Concept C?
Virtually all Christians immediately would rule out the Concept C from the (mathematical) set of Christianity.
But, what about the remaining Concepts, A and B?
Christianity may be considered to be inside the Concept A?
Or, it is more appropriate to consider Christianity like a part of the Concept B?
I think this is an important question inside the thread Bible Study.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 07-20-2013 6:59 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Admin, posted 07-20-2013 1:54 PM Asteragros has not replied
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 07-20-2013 2:04 PM Asteragros has not replied
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 07-20-2013 4:58 PM Asteragros has not replied
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-22-2013 11:15 AM Asteragros has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13017
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 6 of 72 (703401)
07-20-2013 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Asteragros
07-20-2013 12:58 PM


Re: More please sir
Asteragros writes:
Or, it is more appropriate to consider Christianity like a part of the Concept B?
Well, that's why I thought enotheism, as defined at that website I linked to, so interesting. Christianity seems much more like enotheism than "Concept B" because it has the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, and then there's the cult of Saint Mary, and then there's all the lesser saints that Christians pray to, especially Catholics.
But enough of moderators having all the fun. I was leaving it to AdminNosy to make the promotion decision since he replied first, but maybe he's not around this weekend, so I'll promote this now.
Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Asteragros, posted 07-20-2013 12:58 PM Asteragros has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13017
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 7 of 72 (703403)
07-20-2013 1:55 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 8 of 72 (703404)
07-20-2013 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Asteragros
07-20-2013 12:58 PM


Re: More please sir
Percy writes:
Enotheism: Where several different Gods are worshipped but one takes a special place among them
I am a Christian. I believe that there is One God...creator of all seen and unseen, including the other "gods" which I acknowledge to be spirit beings but whom I reject as being in any way godlike.
It is a trait of human nature to "worship" other vibes apart from our Monotheistic Trinitarian God, but in my particular chapter of club christian, we consider idol worship to be something we actively resist in the Spirit.
There is One Spirit(Creator of all things, ideas, and "other gods" seen and unseen, IMB.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Asteragros, posted 07-20-2013 12:58 PM Asteragros has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 72 (703407)
07-20-2013 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Asteragros
07-18-2013 10:37 AM


Depends on when and which
Looking at the three Abrahamic religions, Islam is the one example that is totally Monotheistic. "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet".
When it comes to Judaism you really need to specify the period and culture. For much of history Judaism was most definitely Henotheistic. The early depictions of God is as just one of many Gods, "I am the Lord THY God, and you shall have no Gods before me." After the exile the god evolved into a universal God.
Christianity is the schizoid family member that claims monotheism yet embraces the TRINITY and Jesus and a Fallen Angel that fights and opposes God.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Asteragros, posted 07-18-2013 10:37 AM Asteragros has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Coyote, posted 07-20-2013 2:51 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 12 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2013 5:11 PM jar has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 10 of 72 (703409)
07-20-2013 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
07-20-2013 2:41 PM


Re: Depends on when and which
Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize it.
Robert A. Heinlein, JOB: A Comedy of Justice

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 07-20-2013 2:41 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 72 (703415)
07-20-2013 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Asteragros
07-20-2013 12:58 PM


depends on the fundamental question
Concept A: In the whole universe exists only one god. I worship this sole god.
Concept B: In the universe exist a number of gods. But I worship only one of these
Concept C: In the universe exist a number of gods. I worship all of them
I would expect the conservative literal fundamentalist type/s to prefer concept A and the more liberal analogical interpretionist type/s to prefer concept B ...
... but you also have many other possibles, such as:
Concept D: "In the whole universe exists only one god, but it wears many faces, and I worship this god in all it's faces" and
Concept E: In the whole universe there may exist a(n unknown) number of gods. I recognize this possibility, but do not worship any."
Enjoy
ps - welcome to the fray
... as you are new here, some posting tips:
type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy
or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote:
quotes are easy
also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window.
For other formatting tips see Posting Tips
For a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer
If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Asteragros, posted 07-20-2013 12:58 PM Asteragros has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 72 (703416)
07-20-2013 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
07-20-2013 2:41 PM


Too broad a brush?
Christianity is the schizoid family member that claims monotheism yet embraces the TRINITY and Jesus and a Fallen Angel that fights and opposes God.
I understand the point you are making here, and I don't want to dismiss that point.
But by attributing all of those traits to Christianity, you are literally making the same error Faith routinely makes here. Christians are people who embrace Jesus in one of the many forms embracing might take, but it isn't necessary to either embrace the Trinity or to accept Satan as literally real in order to be Christians. For example, I doubt you fit that mold.
In either event, I don't think worshiping multiple deities who are all in one closely related pantheon really counts as enotheism. I don't think that term applies to most Christians, including the ones who don't buy into the Trinity.
I also suspect that many modern followers of Judaism believe that those other gods described in the Bible are just superstitious claptrap. But back in the day, when those gods were thought to be real, perhaps henotheism was the right term as you say.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 07-20-2013 2:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 07-20-2013 5:37 PM NoNukes has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 72 (703417)
07-20-2013 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by NoNukes
07-20-2013 5:11 PM


Re: Too broad a brush?
But by attributing all of those traits to Christianity, you are literally making the same error Faith routinely makes here. Christians are people who embrace Jesus in one of the many forms embracing might take, but it isn't necessary to either embrace the Trinity or to accept Satan as literally real in order to be Christians. For example, I doubt you fit that mold.
In either event, I don't think worshiping multiple deities who are all in one closely related pantheon really counts as enotheism. I don't think that term applies to most Christians, including the ones who don't buy into the Trinity.
But I did not say that Christianity is henotheistic. I used the term schizoid.
I also suspect that many modern followers of Judaism believe that those other gods described in the Bible are just superstitious claptrap. But back in the day, when those gods were thought to be real, perhaps henotheism was the right term as you say.
Which is why I pointed out "When it comes to Judaism you really need to specify the period and culture."
In the Abrahamic religions the Gods has grown and evolved.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2013 5:11 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 07-21-2013 12:31 AM jar has replied
 Message 15 by NoNukes, posted 07-21-2013 12:42 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 72 (703420)
07-21-2013 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
07-20-2013 5:37 PM


Re: Too broad a brush?
jar writes:
Christianity is the schizoid family member that claims monotheism yet embraces the TRINITY and Jesus and a Fallen Angel that fights and opposes God.
Why cant a monotheistic god have a Son? As you look down at the antpile, imagine how unable to relate to you they are. Then imagine yourself birthing an ant that was your character. Imagine that ant being your prophet, and imagine that that ant was full of the same creative Spirit that you had. Seems logical nto me.
Coyote,quoting Heinlein writes:
Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize it.
Robert A. Heinlein, JOB: A Comedy of Justice
And yet I worship One God, Creator of all seen and unseen. I do not worship a Trinity.
RAZD writes:
I would expect the conservative literal fundamentalist type/s to prefer concept A and the more liberal analogical interpretionist type/s to prefer concept B ...
I am at a cross between A and D. The emphasis in my heart is on Mono E Mono, however. (Praise His Name)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 07-20-2013 5:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by NoNukes, posted 07-21-2013 12:47 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 18 by jar, posted 07-21-2013 9:56 AM Phat has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 72 (703421)
07-21-2013 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
07-20-2013 5:37 PM


Re: Too broad a brush?
But I did not say that Christianity is henotheistic. I used the term schizoid.
And I took issue with your labeling of Christians as holding schizoid beliefs. Some Christians hold beliefs that might be characterized in that way, but many Christians completely dismiss both fallen angels and Trinity doctrine.
Which is why I pointed out "When it comes to Judaism you really need to specify the period and culture."
Yes, and I agreed with you. Not really sure what point you are making.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 07-20-2013 5:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-21-2013 9:54 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024