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Author Topic:   Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 8 of 716 (703587)
07-25-2013 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
07-25-2013 1:47 AM


a few possibilities.
Jesus is NOT the Jewish Messiah you're looking for. Move along.
Jesus will be the Jewish Messiah once He returns, kicks ass and takes names.
The Jews got the whole Messiah thing wrong.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 07-24-2016 10:47 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 716 (703658)
07-26-2013 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by ramoss
07-26-2013 7:20 PM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
Of course, if Faith's assertion of two Messiahs were true then Jesus according to her argument is NOT the Messiah or is a failed Messiah.
The suffering servant may have been fulfilled but not the avenging despot. So by her very argument Jesus is NOT the Messiah.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 33 by ramoss, posted 07-26-2013 7:20 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 07-27-2013 1:37 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 42 of 716 (703675)
07-27-2013 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Faith
07-27-2013 1:37 AM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
Has Jesus come as the Warrior King? If not, then Jesus is NOT the Messiah of the Old Testament.
It really is that simple Faith.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 40 by Faith, posted 07-27-2013 1:37 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 07-29-2013 2:05 AM jar has replied
 Message 216 by foreveryoung, posted 07-27-2016 6:05 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 75 of 716 (703757)
07-29-2013 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
07-29-2013 2:05 AM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
So then Jesus is still a failed Messiah.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 07-29-2013 2:05 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 07-30-2013 12:13 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 82 of 716 (703814)
07-29-2013 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by kofh2u
07-29-2013 4:34 PM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
And to the best of my knowledge nothing in Revelation has ever happened.
Plus, all the additional crap you add in is just plain silly.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by kofh2u, posted 07-29-2013 4:34 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by kofh2u, posted 07-29-2013 5:20 PM jar has replied
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 07-30-2013 12:18 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 86 of 716 (703825)
07-29-2013 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by kofh2u
07-29-2013 5:20 PM


kofh2u posts are just bullshit trolling
And so you add more bullshit and nonsense.
Troll

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by kofh2u, posted 07-29-2013 5:20 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 92 of 716 (703896)
07-30-2013 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
07-30-2013 12:13 PM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
If you look at the requirements of being THE Messiah found in the Old Testament, Jesus is not The Messiah.
The significance of Jesus is his life and the example he gave us.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 07-30-2013 12:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 93 of 716 (703897)
07-30-2013 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
07-30-2013 12:18 PM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
No, the creeds do not address anything in Revelation. There is no mention that I am aware of in any of the creeds about someone falling at Jesus feet as though dead.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 07-30-2013 12:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 186 of 716 (787957)
07-24-2016 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Phat
07-24-2016 10:47 AM


Re: a few possibilities.
Phat writes:
Its always just when I think you mislead people by telling them that the character of jesus is probably simply a tale told around a campfire. Creedal Christians shouldnt affirm a Creed that is simply a literary plot device on the dusty road of history. take a stand. You have stated that Jesus may not be "the Messiah" now but (you believe) He will be when He returns. I'll make note of that addendum to your belief statement.
So many misrepresentations is just one paragraph.
I do not tell people "that the character of jesus is probably simply a tale told around a campfire" but rather the lesson to be learned is the same even if that the character of Jesus is simply a tale told around a campfire. The lesson is help the helpless, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick, educate the ignorant, protect the weak.
And I state categorically that Jesus was not and is not the Jewish Messiah. Rather when Jesus totally failed to fulfill the Jewish Messianic requirements his followers and marketeers revised the list of qualifications needed to be called a Messiah to fit what the character Jesus is said to have done. I point out that to qualify as a Jewish Messiah Jesus will first have to return, establish a literal Jewish Kingdom and rule as a Prince.
And why should a Creedal Christian not both affirm a belief while at the same time pointing out the evidence that is reality?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

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 Message 185 by Phat, posted 07-24-2016 10:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 217 of 716 (788209)
07-27-2016 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by foreveryoung
07-27-2016 6:05 AM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
foreveryoung writes:
The Messiah was to bring in the earthly kingdom of God. He came as a humble servant the first time. There are prophecies concerning the Messiah that do not discuss the warrior king aspect. He fulfills those prophecies. God. did not specify a time when he would assume the warrior king aspect. There is still the rest of time for that to. occur. God said he himself would take away the sins of the world. Since Jesus was God, the first advent was committed to fulfilling that prophecy.
So far whenever we have actually looked at those prophecies in context the result has been that Jesus did not fulfill any of them except a few examples of "self-fulfilling staged events"; carny tricks.
However if you think there are such prophecies please start yet another thread on the subject and we will once again go through the exercise.
Yes, it is possible to take passage out of context and quote-mine and that is a common practice but only works with those who willfully ignore what is actually written in context.
As I have said, if Jesus ever becomes the Warrior Prince successfully and establishes a Jewish Kingdom that rules all, then he would be the Messiah. But until that happens he is just a failed Messiah.
But there is also no evidence that Jesus took away the sins of the world. True, the early marketeers of Christianity did try to redefine what the Jewish Messiah would be but they failed. They did create a new definition of what they thought a Messiah would be that was a different set of characteristics than those held by the Hebrews, but that still would not make Jesus the Jewish Messiah.
AbE: It also seems that most folk claiming to be Bible Christians or Evangelical Christians do not even believe that Jesus took away the sins of the world, rather they seem to believe Jesus took away "THEIR" sins.
That has always seemed kinda funny to me.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by foreveryoung, posted 07-27-2016 6:05 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by foreveryoung, posted 07-27-2016 3:17 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 230 of 716 (788226)
07-27-2016 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by foreveryoung
07-27-2016 3:17 PM


Re: Two Messiahs or Two Advents?
foreveryoung writes:
They are wrong. Jesus did take away the sins of the world.
...
Not all men are saved however. They have to reconcile with God. All they have to do is accept with Jesus did on their behalf. If they refuse, God's taking away all sins of the world does no good.
Classic example of apologetics at its finest, word salad and carny con games.
Jesus took away the sins of the world but not the world, just those who kiss Hank's ass.
It the little games like what is in your post that show so much of Christianity is just another con, another way to fleece the willfully ignorant gullible rubes.
I happen to believe that is why there will be so many more atheists and Satanists and Buddhists and Jews and Muslims and Hindus and agnostics and Taoists and followers of Coyote and Confucius and Mencius in heaven than Christians.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

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 Message 232 by Phat, posted 07-27-2016 4:56 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 233 of 716 (788230)
07-27-2016 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Phat
07-27-2016 4:56 PM


marketing Christianity or living it.
Phat writes:
It must feel nice to be fully responsible. It means you get to have pride and credit yourself for proper behavior.
Too funny. No Phat, it means you and only you are responsible for your failures. There is no credit involved.
Phat writes:
And how is your belief any different? Apart from the fact that you are skilled at avoiding word salad. In addition, you have never trusted Christianity that is not your own brand. To me, this shows that you dont trust God. Reason? You dont believe that Christ can live in others and you prefer to feed the poor, etc yourself anyway.
What about that says I don't trust God? Or did you mean that I don't expect God to have to do what I should and can do?
Who else can feed the poor? It is only us Phat, we are our brothers keepers? We are charged to do.
Folk can pray that the hungry get fed, the sick get healed, the naked get clothed, the suffering get comforted, ignorant get educated, the weak get protected, the homeless get sheltered or they can feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick, protect the weak, shelter the homeless, educate the ignorant, clothe the naked.
One may make the person praying feel better, the other helps the recipient.
Phat writes:
If so, it appears God cares nothing about our behavior.
Am I misrepresenting you again?
I cannot imagine how you can possibly get that out of what you quoted. Nowhere in that quote will you find anything about behavior; rather the quote is about professions and beliefs. I believe God will care far more about our behavior than why we behave as we do, what we claim to believe, what we profess.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Phat, posted 07-27-2016 4:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 254 of 716 (788271)
07-28-2016 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by LamarkNewAge
07-28-2016 1:00 PM


Re: Another "nonsense" charge by Ringo?
Vegetarians eat stuff that got killed. Sorry but that's a fact and the topic of vegetarianism in this thread is just another total irrelevancy per usual.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-28-2016 1:00 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-28-2016 1:08 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 260 of 716 (788279)
07-28-2016 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by LamarkNewAge
07-28-2016 1:08 PM


Re: Another "nonsense" charge by Ringo?
LK writes:
The Temple, Passover, and sacrifices aren't important then?
If you look very closely you will perhaps notice that Temple, Passover, and sacrifices as well as vegetarianism all all different words and none of them related to the topic. Utter nonsense tossed to see what sticks is irrelevant.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 265 of 716 (788284)
07-28-2016 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by ringo
07-28-2016 3:37 PM


Re: Another "nonsense" charge by Ringo (no jar!)?
Preferably the latter.
The issue really comes down to the fact that Christianity became a different religion than Judaism with different dogma, different customs, different practices and marketed to a different audience.
Jesus did not fulfill the Jewish Messianic Prophecies because while Jesus was a Jew his followers created a new religion and became not Jews.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by ringo, posted 07-28-2016 3:37 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-28-2016 6:04 PM jar has replied

  
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