Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 111 (8738 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 04-25-2017 2:29 AM
386 online now:
CRR, Heathen, PaulK, ThinAirDesigns (4 members, 382 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jayhawker Soule
Post Volume:
Total: 805,155 Year: 9,761/21,208 Month: 2,848/2,674 Week: 272/961 Day: 2/134 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
2324252627
28
Author Topic:   Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?
Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 406 of 416 (805038)
04-15-2017 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 405 by jar
04-15-2017 7:30 AM


Daniel 9
There is nothing related to Jesus in Daniel 9. Only a dishonest apologist can pretend Daniel is about Jesus.

I'd say the entire evangelical Church regards Daniel 9 as a prophecy of the timing of the coming of the Messiah, also most other branches of Protestantism. I'm sure that won't stop you from calling all of us "dishonest apologists" of course.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by jar, posted 04-15-2017 7:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by jar, posted 04-15-2017 7:40 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 408 by PaulK, posted 04-15-2017 11:54 AM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 407 of 416 (805040)
04-15-2017 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Faith
04-15-2017 7:34 AM


Re: Daniel 9
Faith writes:

I'd say the entire evangelical Church regards Daniel 9 as a prophecy of the timing of the coming of the Messiah, also most other branches of Protestantism. I'm sure that won't stop you from calling all of us "dishonest apologists" of course.

Correct on both points.

Edited by jar, : fix quote


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Faith, posted 04-15-2017 7:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12563
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 408 of 416 (805080)
04-15-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Faith
04-15-2017 7:34 AM


Re: Daniel 9
To be fair many may be ignorant and deceived rather than dishonest. But there is no doubt that Daniel 9 is not about Jesus, and any claims of exact dates from Daniel 9 are certainly false.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Faith, posted 04-15-2017 7:34 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 04-15-2017 5:16 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 409 of 416 (805102)
04-15-2017 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by PaulK
04-15-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Daniel 9
To be fair many may be ignorant and deceived rather than dishonest. But there is no doubt that Daniel 9 is not about Jesus, and any claims of exact dates from Daniel 9 are certainly false.

And who are you to contradict the entire Church?

Put "Daniel 9 prophecy" into Google to see some of the sources that recognize Daniel 9 as counting to the coming of Jesus Christ.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by PaulK, posted 04-15-2017 11:54 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by PaulK, posted 04-15-2017 5:22 PM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12563
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 410 of 416 (805104)
04-15-2017 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
04-15-2017 5:16 PM


Re: Daniel 9
quote:

And who are you to contradict the entire Church?

I don't.

Who am I to contradict popular falsehoods ? Someone who has done the research and found the truth. It isn't hard to do. The lame excuses of the apologists are easy to see through with just a little digging.

If you think that there are convincing arguments start a thread. I will take them down. And you have been here long enough to know that I am not bluffing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 04-15-2017 5:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 04-15-2017 9:25 PM PaulK has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24398
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 411 of 416 (805118)
04-15-2017 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by PaulK
04-15-2017 5:22 PM


Re: Daniel 9
I'm not up to such a debate right now, but before I'd even consider it I'd want to know if your view of the book of Daniel is based on "modern scholarship" that places its writing after the events it prophesies, rather than my view, which of course takes its own timing clues at face value.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by PaulK, posted 04-15-2017 5:22 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by PaulK, posted 04-16-2017 2:00 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 12563
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 412 of 416 (805127)
04-16-2017 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Faith
04-15-2017 9:25 PM


Re: Daniel 9
There are points against the idea that the prophecy refers to Jesus without touching on when it was written (e.g. the numbers don't add up quite right, even given the questionable choice of start point, the seventieth week did not happen on schedule).

However since the evidence favours the scholarly view (that is WHY it is the view taken by scholars) naturally I favour it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 04-15-2017 9:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Davidjay, posted 04-16-2017 9:48 AM PaulK has not yet responded

    
Davidjay
Member
Posts: 366
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 413 of 416 (805142)
04-16-2017 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by PaulK
04-16-2017 2:00 AM


Re: Daniel 9
OK I shall start a PROPOSED TOPIC called Daniel 9, 1st Coming to 2nd Coming

Why because it details in advance His EXACT Death Year, via 69 weeks. With the last week or seven years being the standard basic, time prophecy of Revelation, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Zechariah, Thessalonians, Mathew etc etc.... starting with the Covenant, the
Nuclear War, the Great Tribulation, seven trumpets and then the 2nd COMING and new Beginning.

Easy to comprehend if you are open minded and know Grade Six Math. See you there.

NO offense Faith, but you didnt want to discuss it before, why NOw. Nevertheless, see you there


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by PaulK, posted 04-16-2017 2:00 AM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Davidjay, posted 04-17-2017 11:56 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Davidjay
Member
Posts: 366
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 414 of 416 (805302)
04-17-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by Davidjay
04-16-2017 9:48 AM


Re: Daniel 9 is MATH is Science, is TRUE
Your silence is deafening...evolutionists. You cant take the challenge, you have had enough of math that destroys your luck and chance and billion years of slow evolution theory. So now you sleepeth, or maybe you are trying to catch up on your Grade SIX MATH to be able to comprehend the mathematics and exactness of 69 times 7.

Nevertheless even though it takes longer, do remember that multiplication is just addition, done in a faster way. But the basis is simply addition of numbers, or in this case exact years.

Ill help you I promise.

Dont be afraid, take the challenge and learn. Instead of being closed minded to science and math, open up your minds.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Davidjay, posted 04-16-2017 9:48 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 12:26 PM Davidjay has responded

    
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 813
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 415 of 416 (805307)
04-17-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Davidjay
04-17-2017 11:56 AM


Re: Daniel 9 is MATH is Science, is TRUE
...or maybe you are trying to catch up on your Grade SIX MATH to be able to comprehend the mathematics and exactness of 69 times 7.

That was like...2nd grade math for me. Guess this comment is a reflection of the educational quality of your childhood. Anyway, it'd be funny watching you debate an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, but I don't believe you can think past your emotions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Davidjay, posted 04-17-2017 11:56 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Davidjay, posted 04-19-2017 8:55 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

  
Davidjay
Member
Posts: 366
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 416 of 416 (805552)
04-19-2017 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Genomicus
04-17-2017 12:26 PM


Re: Daniel 9 is MATH is Science, is TRUE
I think in exact terms not emotions.

Daniel 9 is exact, and evolutionists and athiests hate it and prophecy to the max, because it is an adictment against them,

My estimation of Grade 6 Math needed for Daniel 9 is pretty closde, as then they start multiplication. Some of my grandchildren are doing this at present. Mind you, 3rd world schools are MUCH better mathematically than our new Math, anything close math, estimations, dont offend anyone Math being taught in Western schools. The West is so far behind, as they intentionally try to dumb down their children so they wont be intelligent enough to see through the lies of their parents, and rulers).

So Yes, multiplication is more appropriate for doing the math in Daniel 9... you can do it Gen... just think back or get a refresher course.

69 times 7 = 483 PLUS 7 = 490


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Genomicus, posted 04-17-2017 12:26 PM Genomicus has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
2324252627
28
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017