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Author Topic:   Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 466 of 716 (806696)
04-27-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 464 by Faith
04-27-2017 10:11 AM


Re: An angel or Jupiter?...ANGEL
Stars dont hover over a manager in the fields of Bethelehem. An angel does, but planets don't
And retrograde movement does not last long, as the wise astronomers traveled a great distance to find the Messiah.
But if you like retrograde, OK. but logically it doesnt match up with the Bible narrative.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:41 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 467 of 716 (806699)
04-27-2017 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 466 by Davidjay
04-27-2017 10:39 AM


Re: An angel or Jupiter?...ANGEL
WATCH THE VIDEO. Larson was very careful to match Jupiter with scripture ON NINE POINTS. If you're going to have an opinion at least find out what you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by Davidjay, posted 04-27-2017 10:39 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by Davidjay, posted 04-28-2017 8:48 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 468 of 716 (806700)
04-27-2017 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 463 by Davidjay
04-27-2017 10:00 AM


Re: 1997, Jacobs Trouble
You must understand the basic timeline
I do. It's about time you did too.
The reign of the Beast begins in Revelation 13.
In Revelation 15 and 16 we get the seven angels with the seven last plagues: "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."
In Revelation 19, the Beast is cast into the pit.
And in Revelation 20 Christ begins his thousand year reign alongside "them that [...] had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands".
If we are living in the Millennium, then the reign of the Beast and all the events concomitant with that have already happened, and no-one noticed.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 469 of 716 (806702)
04-27-2017 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by Theodoric
04-27-2017 8:42 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Youre finally right Theo, stars dont hold their position, an angel can and did, but a retrograde star/planet does not.
Here in Canada, we can in some places be able to watch the stars and planets in all their glory and they do move seemingly around the North Pole, as the Lord rotates the heavens or better said, rotates the Earth in its exact revolutionary TIME
SEE Light Speed by Design thread

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2017 8:42 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2017 4:44 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 470 of 716 (806705)
04-27-2017 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 456 by Theodoric
04-27-2017 8:42 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
The point was what it would have meant to the Magi who understood all that. And yes I understand it all pretty well, but they would have seen significance where I wouldn't have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 456 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2017 8:42 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2017 4:45 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 471 of 716 (806706)
04-27-2017 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
04-27-2017 10:34 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Faith writes:
According to Larson's study, that wasn't the reason they traveled to Bethlehem; it was the conjunction of Jupiter with Venus, making the brightest celestial object in a lifetime.
Larsen may well be a great lawyer but either he is utterly ignorant about star gazing or utterly dishonest.
The facts are that even if Jupiter did appear over Bethlehem (something impossible to determine by people distant from Bethlehem) within six hours it would no longer be over Bethlehem but rather at the horizon.
The video is a classic example of "Preaching to the Choir" and marketing to those who have decided to be willfully ignorant.
There are a very limited number of stars or other objects that remain in any one direction even in the sky and none that remain over any one spot on earth.
The video is only evidence that there really is a sucker born every minute.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 472 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:57 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 472 of 716 (806708)
04-27-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by jar
04-27-2017 10:52 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
GOOD GRIEF! WATCH THE VIDEO fer cryin out loud! There is no point in having an opinion when you don't know what Larson took into account, and I can't spell it ALL out for you. He did plenty of research to put that thing together, both about astronomical events and about the Bible. GO WATCH THE VIDEO before you start accusing him of all the usual perfidies you assign to Christians!
I did make an effort to put it all together in Message 440 but I couldn't cover all his reasoning in a brief post. The video is in Message 438
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by jar, posted 04-27-2017 10:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by jar, posted 04-27-2017 11:06 AM Faith has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 473 of 716 (806709)
04-27-2017 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
04-27-2017 10:34 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Faith writes:
Whatever stopping right over Bethlehem means ....
It means it's a myth, a magical story designed to promote the importance of the mythical event. Jupiter is 365 million miles away at it's closest point, it doesn't 'stop' over anything.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 474 of 716 (806712)
04-27-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
04-27-2017 10:34 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
According to Larson's study, that wasn't the reason they traveled to Bethlehem; it was the conjunction of Jupiter with Venus, making the brightest celestial object in a lifetime.
But conjunctions of Venus and Jupiter also happen every year.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 476 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 11:08 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 475 of 716 (806713)
04-27-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by Faith
04-27-2017 10:57 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Faith writes:
GOOD GRIEF! WATCH THE VIDEO fer cryin out loud! There is no point in having an opinion when you don't know what Larson took into account, and I can't spell it ALL out for you. He did plenty of research to put that thing together, both about astronomical events and about the Bible. GO WATCH THE VIDEO before you start accusing him of all the usual perfidies you assign to Christians!
I've done better Faith; I've actually watch the night skies. And I do not assign perfidies to Christians since I myself am a Christian. What I try to do is to point out the perversion of reality and the Bible and history and biology and astronomy that many ignorant Christians post.
He made shit up and the willfully ignorant bought what he marketed.
Stop watching videos and start watching reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 11:09 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 476 of 716 (806715)
04-27-2017 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by Dr Adequate
04-27-2017 11:05 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Not of this particular closeness which would have magnified their combined brightness, according to Larson.
ABE: He also says that this particular conjunction is shown in planetariums at Christmas time, which if so would imply it is considered to have been something special.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-27-2017 11:05 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by jar, posted 04-27-2017 11:18 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 485 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-27-2017 11:20 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 477 of 716 (806717)
04-27-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 475 by jar
04-27-2017 11:06 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Watching the night sky isn't going to do one thing toward understanding what Larson did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by jar, posted 04-27-2017 11:06 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by PaulK, posted 04-27-2017 11:14 AM Faith has replied
 Message 480 by jar, posted 04-27-2017 11:15 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 484 by NoNukes, posted 04-27-2017 11:20 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 508 by Theodoric, posted 04-27-2017 4:47 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 478 of 716 (806718)
04-27-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
04-27-2017 10:34 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Whatever stopping right over Bethlehem means would have been the striking thing, not the stopping because of changing direction as such, and the timing of events would be of major importance
You are begging the entire question here. If you cannot come up with a way for a planet to stop over a city, then what do you have?
All these natural events in relation to scripture IS exciting.
It would at least be Interesting if we could actually establish the relationship. But trying to force an explanation without facts is just astronomical numerology. Apparently that is what this thread has devolved into.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 10:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 11:16 AM NoNukes has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 479 of 716 (806721)
04-27-2017 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by Faith
04-27-2017 11:09 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
So here is a serious question, since you have watched the video. How long does Larson allow for the trip from Jerusalem to Bethlehem and how far does Jupiter "move" in that time, ignoring the rotation of the Earth ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 11:09 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 11:19 AM PaulK has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 480 of 716 (806723)
04-27-2017 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by Faith
04-27-2017 11:09 AM


Re: The Star: It's All Natural Astronomical Phenomena
Faith writes:
Watching the night sky isn't going to do one thing toward understanding what Larson did.
Of course it did. It certainly provided convincing evidence the man is just making shit up, has no understanding of reality, of Earth movement or objects in the sky at night. He may not be a fool since folk actually watch his silly video but that does not change the fact that it is simply absurd.
Sorry Faith but once again Reality trumps Fantasy Videos.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 04-27-2017 11:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
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