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Author Topic:   Flat Earth Society
ringo
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Posts: 13874
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 16 of 119 (706487)
09-12-2013 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by bluegenes
09-12-2013 10:46 AM


Re: from the FAQ
bluegenes writes:

It's often been noted by the society that round earthers will suggest what they think would be experiments which would falsify a flat earth, but that they seem to lack the confidence to actually go out and do them.


I remember reading about an experiment that was done a hundred years or so ago in England:

There was a stretch of canal that was perfectly straight for six miles or so. They set up markers at a fixed height above the water at each end and in the middle. Sighting along the markers, it was observed that they fell in a straight line, indicating that the surface of the water was perfectly flat.

Unfortunately, the actual data has been lost and the canal no longer exists.


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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
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(1)
Message 17 of 119 (706489)
09-12-2013 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
09-12-2013 12:23 PM


Re: from the FAQ
I remember reading about an experiment that was done a hundred years or so ago in England:

There was a stretch of canal that was perfectly straight for six miles or so. They set up markers at a fixed height above the water at each end and in the middle. Sighting along the markers, it was observed that they fell in a straight line, indicating that the surface of the water was perfectly flat.

This was done by Alfred Russel Wallace, the other guy who thought up evolution and in effect forced Darwin to publish. Wallace did the canal experiment as a bet with a flat-Earther who refused to pay up when Wallace won. The flat-Earther in question was later imprisoned for libeling Wallace and issuing death-threats. Wallace would later go on to become a Spiritualist, proving that no-one's perfect.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 322 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 18 of 119 (706501)
09-12-2013 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by bluegenes
09-12-2013 7:39 AM


Re: from the FAQ
arachnophilia writes:

near the antarctic should be significantly longer than circumnavigation near the arctic.

bluegenes writes:

But you would be measuring the times of voyages making "round earth" assumptions.

no no, not longer time, longer distance.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
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Posts: 10059
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 19 of 119 (706507)
09-12-2013 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nwr
09-09-2013 9:17 AM


Topologically, it is a sphere with handles. And every time a new clover-leaf highway interchange is built, we add more handles. There are also natural handles (natural bridges, caves with multiple openings).

Geometrically, it is not a sphere -- there are too many hills and valleys for that.

Those are all fairly minor deviations from a sphere. Far more significant is that the earth is actually bulges out into something like an oblate spheroid due to gravity and spin. The equator bulges out at about 26.5 miles which is far larger than any hill or ocean trench.

http://geography.about.com/...ography/a/geodesyearthsize.htm

quote:
Local topography also plays a role in the Earth's shape, but on a global scale its role is very small. The largest differences in local topography across the globe are Mount Everest, the highest point above sea level at 29,035 ft (8,850 m), and the Mariana Trench, the lowest point below sea level at 35,840 ft (10,924 m). This difference is only a matter of about 12 miles (19 km), which is very minor overall. If equatorial bulge is considered, the world's highest point and the place that is farthest from the Earth's center is the peak of the volcano Chimborazo in Ecuador as it is the highest peak that is nearest the equator. Its elevation is 20,561 ft (6,267 m).

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 66 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 20 of 119 (706513)
09-13-2013 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by arachnophilia
09-12-2013 4:13 PM


Hard facts.
arachnophilia writes:

no no, not longer time, longer distance.

The coastline of the ice wall ("Antarctica") measures 17,968 km.

The circuit that Round Earthers consider to be the "equator" measures 6,378 km.

Bring in the hard facts, and the RE position quickly becomes untenable.


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ProtoTypical
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Posts: 1759
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 21 of 119 (706519)
09-13-2013 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by bluegenes
09-12-2013 8:51 AM


quote:
The sunrise/sunset is an optical illusion brought on by an opaque atmolayer and refraction.
There you have it. Prove him wrong.

I suppose that the tea leaves from Russel's teapot would suffice.

Do they explain how the moon can be eclipsed by the earth if the earth is never between the sun and moon?


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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11812
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 22 of 119 (706523)
09-13-2013 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by bluegenes
09-13-2013 1:18 AM


Re: Hard facts.
The coastline of the ice wall ("Antarctica") measures 17,968 km.

The circuit that Round Earthers consider to be the "equator" measures 6,378 km.

According to my geometry, that leaves us a distance of 3,690 km between the ice wall and the equator. That is less than half the length of South America, which is mostly in the southern hemisphe....er, I mean, the outer-half section of the disc.

So that can't be right.


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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 66 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 23 of 119 (706527)
09-13-2013 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by ProtoTypical
09-13-2013 8:49 AM


Prototypical writes:

Do they explain how the moon can be eclipsed by the earth if the earth is never between the sun and moon?

I expect so, but I'm not an expert on the atmolayer, so I can't help. You could always start a topic on it on their board.


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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 66 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 24 of 119 (706528)
09-13-2013 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by New Cat's Eye
09-13-2013 10:03 AM


Re: Hard facts.
Catholic Scientist writes:

According to my geometry, that leaves us a distance of 3,690 km between the ice wall and the equator. That is less than half the length of South America, which is mostly in the southern hemisphe....er, I mean, the outer-half section of the disc.

So that can't be right.

How did you measure South America? I hope you didn't use your stake and wire method or make RE assumptions.


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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11812
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 25 of 119 (706532)
09-13-2013 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by bluegenes
09-13-2013 11:08 AM


Re: Hard facts.
How did you measure South America? I hope you didn't use your stake and wire method or make RE assumptions.

I hiked it with one of these:


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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 66 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 26 of 119 (706537)
09-13-2013 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by New Cat's Eye
09-13-2013 11:24 AM


Re: Hard facts.
CS writes:

I hiked it with one of these:

When we say "flat", we don't mean it so literally that you can measure it by walking up and down the peaks of the Andes all the way from north to south with one of those things.


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 27 of 119 (706538)
09-13-2013 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by New Cat's Eye
09-09-2013 1:31 PM


They mention that the North Pole is the center of the disc and at the outer edge is an ice wall that corresponds to Antarctica. If they really cared to find out, they could measure the length of the circumference of Antarctica and figure out that its way to small to be the outer edge of the disc.

Is there any reason why they put the North Pole in the middle, rather then ... well, anything else, it would work equally well.


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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11812
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 28 of 119 (706539)
09-13-2013 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by bluegenes
09-13-2013 12:06 PM


Re: Hard facts.
When we say "flat", we don't mean it so literally that you can measure it by walking up and down the peaks of the Andes all the way from north to south with one of those things.

No, you mean it in an even more ridiculous way.


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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 29 of 119 (706540)
09-13-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Dr Adequate
09-13-2013 12:09 PM


Good point!!

Ironically this smacks of them having adopted the conventional globe model of the Earth (with the North Pole at the top) and then flattening it out to suit their particular requirements.

Flat Earth globe conventionalists....!!!


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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11812
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 30 of 119 (706541)
09-13-2013 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Dr Adequate
09-13-2013 12:09 PM


Is there any reason why they put the North Pole in the middle, rather then ... well, anything else, it would work equally well.

I think its so they can have the ice wall (Antarctica) surrounding everything and holding the oceans in.

If you chose a different point, then the oceans would fall off the edge of the disc.


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