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Author Topic:   The Specific Cause of the "Evolution vs. 'Creationism'" Controversy, and of the appar
ringo
Member
Posts: 14782
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 31 of 46 (744767)
12-15-2014 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
12-14-2014 3:19 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

He can, however, be proven wrong by using a different definition.


Objectively or subjectively?

"Proof" implies objectivity.

Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-14-2014 3:19 PM Phat has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 14782
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 32 of 46 (744768)
12-15-2014 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by NoNukes
12-14-2014 8:51 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
NoNukes writes:

You claimed to be taking up the challenge, but you actually did not bother to do anything but assert.


The only challenge a bare assertion needs is another assertion.

NoNukes writes:

But it also contained a challenge to disprove his statement.


Sure, he wanted us to disprove the statement to his satisfaction. I don't give a flying @#$% about that. I'm just pointing out to any sensible person reading this thread that his challenge is completely empty.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by NoNukes, posted 12-14-2014 8:51 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 12-15-2014 11:58 AM ringo has responded

NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10743
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 33 of 46 (744774)
12-15-2014 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
12-15-2014 10:50 AM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
The only challenge a bare assertion needs is another assertion.

That's cute and rhythmic. But it's not true in this case. In particular, Genesis says nothing about what is required to be born again, so your 'another assertion' is woefully short of even being responsive, let alone meeting the challenge.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 12-15-2014 10:50 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 12-15-2014 12:21 PM NoNukes has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14782
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 34 of 46 (744776)
12-15-2014 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by NoNukes
12-15-2014 11:58 AM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
NoNukes writes:

In particular, Genesis says nothing about what is required to be born again....


You make my point. Genesis is not related to being born again, so the "challenge" is empty.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 12-15-2014 11:58 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 12-15-2014 4:31 PM ringo has responded

NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10743
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 35 of 46 (744786)
12-15-2014 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
12-15-2014 12:21 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
You make my point. Genesis is not related to being born again, so the "challenge" is empty.

ringo, you are twisting in the breeze because you don't have a point.

Remember that your initial claim was that you could just redefine. Now you are claiming to have agreed with me all along. Total BS.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ringo, posted 12-15-2014 12:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 12-16-2014 10:39 AM NoNukes has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14782
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 36 of 46 (744828)
12-16-2014 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by NoNukes
12-15-2014 4:31 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
NoNukes writes:

Remember that your initial claim was that you could just redefine. Now you are claiming to have agreed with me all along.


You don't have to work so hard at misunderstanding.

I'm not agreeing with you. I'm saying that your "point" is nonsense. You're going in both directions at once and running into yourself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by NoNukes, posted 12-15-2014 4:31 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 12-17-2014 2:23 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10743
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 37 of 46 (744944)
12-17-2014 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
12-16-2014 10:39 AM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
You don't have to work so hard at misunderstanding.

I understand completely. You are employing the same silly argument style you use in every thread.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 12-16-2014 10:39 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Admin
Director
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From: EvC Forum
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Message 38 of 46 (744951)
12-17-2014 8:00 AM


Moderator on Duty
A little more meaningful content, please, and a little less editorializing.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 39 of 46 (745079)
12-18-2014 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
12-14-2014 2:34 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
My point did not relate Genesis to regeneration. My specific point was that a belief in the validity of evolution is not in any way a hindrance to someone receiving Christ as their Savior: by the Father embodied in the Son becoming the life-giving Spirit to enter into and become mingled with their human spirit.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 40 of 46 (745080)
12-18-2014 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by NoNukes
12-14-2014 1:54 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
Being born again is a matter of life, not knowledge. It is NOT believing in a philosophy, religion, or determining to practice certain ethics or morals. You have a physical existence because you were born biologically of a physical father. God is Spirit. Human beings are created with a human spirit to contain God. Being born again is what happens when a human being realizes and recognizes that God became a man to reach and redeem mankind whom He loves. You simply receive all that the Father is and that the Son accomplished as a free eternal gift as the Spirit into your spirit. Simple. God now has a name, and that name is Jesus. Call His name and recognize Him as Lord "No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except in the sSpirit". and you will be born again with God as eternal life, becoming your Father. It has to be realized experientially, subjectively.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by NoNukes, posted 12-14-2014 1:54 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14782
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 41 of 46 (745155)
12-19-2014 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by PaulGL
12-18-2014 7:39 PM


Re: Why 'Creationism, et. al. is vain babbling
PaulGL writes:

My specific point was that a belief in the validity of evolution is not in any way a hindrance to someone receiving Christ as their Savior: by the Father embodied in the Son becoming the life-giving Spirit to enter into and become mingled with their human spirit.


The problem with your point is that evolution is a hindrance to somebody accepting Christ as their Saviour if they believe it's a hindrance. Their belief in the hindrance doesn't have to be any more rational than their belief in Christ, so you can't rationalize it away.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by PaulGL, posted 12-18-2014 7:39 PM PaulGL has not yet responded

AlexCaledin
Member (Idle past 36 days)
Posts: 41
From: Samara, Russia
Joined: 10-22-2016


Message 42 of 46 (825883)
12-18-2017 5:43 PM


The problem is, evolution is GARBAGE essentially. Dead pre-historic bones are garbage and any knowledge derived from them is garbage according to the GIGO principle
Replies to this message:
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Coyote
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Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 43 of 46 (825890)
12-18-2017 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by AlexCaledin
12-18-2017 5:43 PM


Stupidest post of the month...
The problem is, evolution is GARBAGE essentially. Dead pre-historic bones are garbage and any knowledge derived from them is garbage according to the GIGO principle

An utter lie.

As an archaeologist I have analyzed perhaps a thousand skeletons (prehistoric but not fossilized). And you are telling me I can't learn anything from all of those?

And certainly the Native American descendants I deal with would not be amused by you calling the bones of their ancestors "garbage."

Maybe you should go troll elsewhere...


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by AlexCaledin, posted 12-18-2017 5:43 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by RAZD, posted 12-19-2017 8:56 AM Coyote has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19526
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 44 of 46 (825899)
12-19-2017 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Coyote
12-18-2017 8:41 PM


Re: Stupidest post of the month...
Stupidest post of the month...

Second. Distilling so much stupidity and error into such a short post takes a certain talent.

The problem is, evolution is GARBAGE essentially. Dead pre-historic bones are garbage and any knowledge derived from them is garbage according to the GIGO principle

An utter lie.

And the only one AlexCaledin is fooling is himself. Classic Cognitive Dissonance, attempting to resolve his dissonance by disparaging the conflicting information. His problems are several fold:

  1. Evolution does not depend on nor is it derived from fossil bones, it is derived from living populations.
  2. His "logical" structure is fatally flawed, as his conclusion does not follow from his precept, it's a non-sequitur.
    - any knowledge derived from Uranium is Uranium?
  3. Calling something garbage does not make it so.

For starters.

Out of interest I looked up the definition

quote:
Definition of garbage
1 a : food waste
   b : discarded or useless material
2 a : trash 1b
   b : inaccurate or useless data

The last definition is what GIGO refers to, while it takes a stretch to apply the first definition to a fossil bone, meaning he has used the fallacy of equivocation - using the word with different meanings.

Curiously, I also looked up compost:

quote:
Definition of compost
1 : a mixture that consists largely of decayed organic matter and is used for fertilizing and conditioning land
2 : mixture, compound

Compost is "used for fertilizing and conditioning land" so it's not garbage.

Sadly, AlexCaledin will continue to have cognitive dissonance problems, because evolution is real and it is occurring all around him, he will keep bumping into it.

The best way to resolve cognitive dissonance is to accept reality and discard falsified beliefs.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : .


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This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 14782
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 45 of 46 (825924)
12-19-2017 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by AlexCaledin
12-18-2017 5:43 PM


Alex Caledin writes:

Dead pre-historic bones are garbage and any knowledge derived from them is garbage according to the GIGO principle


Everything you've heard about evolution is garbage. On creationist websites, you'll get nothing but garbage in.

If you have anything to say that isn't parroted garbage from creationists, we have lots of topics here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by AlexCaledin, posted 12-18-2017 5:43 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

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