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Author Topic:   Relevance of origins to modern science
Theodoric
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Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 106 of 124 (707802)
10-01-2013 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 9:27 AM


I suggested the possibility of Atheist divergence/denomination on the basis of including their sexual orientation, diet, abortion views, Drug habits, education level etc.

But those are views that are no different than views religious people have. Why would the atheists be broken out these ways?

Again, atheism is simply not having a belief in a god or gods.

In my University we could get along quite well without ever mentioning our beliefs about the world, faith, religion etc., unless prompted to do so.

So it is like every place else.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 9:27 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 107 of 124 (707803)
10-01-2013 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 10:01 AM


Re: Wrong yet again.
Wars and damage to society is cannot be attributed to religion alone.

Of course not but it has been the overwhelming cause historically. Atheism has had very little influence in anything historically.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 10:01 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29423
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 108 of 124 (707804)
10-01-2013 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 10:01 AM


Re: Wrong yet again.
And no one has claimed that but you gotta admit, no cause has done more than religion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 10:01 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

  
Ra3MaN
Member (Idle past 1380 days)
Posts: 31
From: Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: 09-23-2013


Message 109 of 124 (707807)
10-01-2013 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Theodoric
10-01-2013 9:50 AM


So advocating and encouraging religious views is perfectly fine, but doing the same with nonreligious views is not?

I am not saying that.

What one is indoctrinating?

both, that is what makes persisting views so amazing. Also, it is why Atheism should be considered to be a faith-based sect (by Atheists), because it opposes religion directly. see the Atheist Church movement...

You certainly seem to be suffering from Christian Persecution Syndrome.

?

There are a lot of atheists that have very strong disagreements with dawkins.

Exactly, see message 100:

I suggested the possibility of Atheist divergence/denomination on the basis of including [Atheist's] sexual orientation, diet, abortion views, Drug habits, education level etc.

Secondly, WTF does Abiogenesis have to do with atheism?

See message 92

I singled out scientific hypothesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Theodoric, posted 10-01-2013 9:50 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Theodoric, posted 10-01-2013 10:23 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

  
Ra3MaN
Member (Idle past 1380 days)
Posts: 31
From: Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: 09-23-2013


Message 110 of 124 (707809)
10-01-2013 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Theodoric
10-01-2013 9:56 AM


You are insulting as well as ignorant

I apologize I don't mean to come across as insulting nor arrogant. Please point out my arrogance, so that i may edit my phrasing.

What group is more represented in the prison population? Atheists or religious?

not sure...

What group is most known for advocating polygamy? Atheists or a religion based in Utah?

not sure...

I am familiar with Gauteng area of SA. Unfortunately, the fundies hold incredible sway there.

I am not sure what you are implying with this statement.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Theodoric, posted 10-01-2013 9:56 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 10-01-2013 10:25 AM Ra3MaN has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 111 of 124 (707810)
10-01-2013 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 10:17 AM


In other words all you are doing is spouting crap?

A sophomoric Gish Gallop?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 10:17 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 112 of 124 (707811)
10-01-2013 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 10:22 AM


nor arrogant.

ignorant not arrogant.

not sure..

Maybe you should research before you spout crap?

not sure...

You have the internet. Research.

I am not sure what you are implying with this statement.

You obviously have been indoctrinated by the fundies of that area.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 10:22 AM Ra3MaN has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-02-2013 5:03 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5097
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 113 of 124 (707815)
10-01-2013 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 8:55 AM


Ra writes:

Maybe you could get, polygamist Atheists vs monogamist Atheists, Genocide approving Atheists vs non-... It may happen that the Harvard university Atheists can't get along with the Oxford University Atheists because of their University affiliation... I agree that Atheism won't change how the world came out, and yet there will still be conflict.

You can get atheists in all shapes and sizes - all they have in common is a non-belief in god.

Do you live differently from a religious person? I asked one Atheist about what keeps him motivated to do life. His answer: Personal fitness. Where as the religious or spiritual person would live according to the doctrine of their Belief. I would like to know what drives you to continue your existence? (if you want you can message me)

We're not a different species you know.

I live exactly like any other reasonably well behaved person, I live in a house with wife and kids and have a good job - oddly enough, I'm perfectly normal - I've never even raped anybody.

I'd like to continue my existence because it's a better choice than the alternative. I'm living a normal, reasonably contented life.

Why do you think I'm any different to you?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 8:55 AM Ra3MaN has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13715
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 114 of 124 (707831)
10-01-2013 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 7:08 AM


Ra3MaN writes:

Doesn't being Atheist mean that you can hold you own e.g. moral standards, as a result of there being no God?


If you don't slavishly obey the whims of an alien overlord you have to be responsible for your own morality. That may take the form of following your own conscience and/or the standards of society.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 7:08 AM Ra3MaN has acknowledged this reply

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3006
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 115 of 124 (707858)
10-01-2013 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 7:08 AM


Ra3MaN writes:

Doesn't being Atheist mean that you can hold you own e.g. moral standards, as a result of there being no God?

Yes.
But being a believer means you hold your own moral standard as well... it's just that as a result of there being a God, the believer chooses to accept God's moral standard as valid.

We all choose our own moral system based on what we think is right.
Some believe whatever a God tells them to - because they think it's the right thing to do.
Some believe whatever a Pastor tells them to - because they think it's the right thing to do.
Some believe whatever they interpret from God and their own experiences - because they think it's the right thing to do.
Some believe whatever they think is best - because they think it's the right thing to do.

If it is true, I would be so offended by the idea that I was living in submission to a God doesn't exist. I would most likely resort to living a self centered life with no purpose except the "do whatever feels good" principle and I wouldn't be interested in science.

If you're only doing the right thing because God tells you to... are you really being a good person?
Wouldn't a person really be a good person if they did the right thing regardless of what God wanted?

The first question can be the hardest to answer honestly to yourself: Regardless of whether or not God exists... do you really care about being a good person? Or is it just a low-priority aspect of your life?

What do you think an Atheistic world will look like? (maybe this should be a new topic...)

If you're interested, try reading some of this:
Morality without god
Feel free to continue any moral discussion there, or even start your own topic if you'd prefer.

Personally, I think it would look about the same.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 7:08 AM Ra3MaN has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15960
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 116 of 124 (707876)
10-01-2013 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 7:08 AM


Doesn't being Atheist mean that you can hold you own e.g. moral standards, as a result of there being no God?

Theists can also hold their own moral standards. The difference is that theists can then attribute their own moral standards to God, saying: "God wants me to stone you to death/burn you alive/blow you up" rather than saying "I want to". Whether or not there is a God, it is evident that his usual role is not so much as a source of human morality as a scapegoat for it.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 7:08 AM Ra3MaN has acknowledged this reply

  
Ra3MaN
Member (Idle past 1380 days)
Posts: 31
From: Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: 09-23-2013


Message 117 of 124 (707911)
10-02-2013 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Theodoric
10-01-2013 10:25 AM


Maybe you should research before you spout crap?

You are correct. I am busy developing my writing style and I am inexperienced in online debates so please be patient with me.

You obviously have been indoctrinated by the fundies of that area.

I don't think so, maybe you can belief this about me: I am very skeptical about other peoples beliefs and like to test the validity of their beliefs before I incorporate/change what i believe.

I am from Cape Town, South Africa, I only recently moved up here. Therefore you are incorrect and I don't think you are qualified to diagnose me ...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 10-01-2013 10:25 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Pressie, posted 10-02-2013 6:32 AM Ra3MaN has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1791
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 118 of 124 (707915)
10-02-2013 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Ra3MaN
10-02-2013 5:03 AM


Ra3MaN writes:

I am from Cape Town, South Africa, I only recently moved up here. Therefore you are incorrect and I don't think you are qualified to diagnose me ...

Sure can. Your homepage is http://freehovind.com/watch-_4930240196747890104, you asked questions about 'angular momentum' (debunked literally millions of times) and you can't stick to the subject at all.

You're either a POE or a YEC (crazy as can be).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-02-2013 5:03 AM Ra3MaN has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-02-2013 7:26 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Ra3MaN
Member (Idle past 1380 days)
Posts: 31
From: Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: 09-23-2013


Message 119 of 124 (707916)
10-02-2013 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Pressie
10-02-2013 6:32 AM


you can't stick to the subject at all.

How is this comment on topic? aren't you just as bad as me?

I was satisfied with the answer ages ago, and yet the topic ensues.

Sure can. Your homepage is http://freehovind.com/watch-_4930240196747890104, you asked questions about 'angular momentum' (debunked literally millions of times) and you can't stick to the subject at all

That material is ancient. Thank you for verbally attacking me, are you satisfied? I apologize for not being intellectually superior as you are, I will try harder next time...

You're either a POE or a YEC (crazy as can be)

I am still new to this forum, could you please explain these acronyms?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Pressie, posted 10-02-2013 6:32 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2013 2:02 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 16019
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 120 of 124 (707918)
10-02-2013 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Ra3MaN
10-01-2013 2:29 AM


Ra3MaN writes:

I understand. Many people, including myself have personal experience, which may not convince you, but it really convinced me.

You asked how one would scientifically prove the existence of spirits, and I told you. Your "personal experience" is worthless scientifically. Design an experiment to detect the existence of spirits, carry it out, then publish the results so that other scientists can replicate your work. That's how one would scientifically prove the existence of spirits.

What are your thoughts on that?

What are my thoughts on indoctrination being the source of the public's belief in either theism or atheism (no capitals, it not a religious order)? My thoughts are that the instruments of indoctrination are possessed by only one side.

You also imply that science is inherently atheistic. The reality is that it merely follows the evidence. It cannot comment on that for which there is no evidence.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Ra3MaN, posted 10-01-2013 2:29 AM Ra3MaN has not yet responded

    
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